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Skins changed AGAIN!!!

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Paul Brian
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Paul Brian asked on 29 Apr 2010, 01:47 AM
Just updated to 2010.1 415 and the skins have changed AGAIN!!

I thought after last year's debacle with skin changes I would be safe but no!

I used WebBlue and the CommandItem icons for refresh, add, edit etc. on the grid have changed. That's fine but I spent time copying the images from before for use in CommandItem templates and they are now all WRONG!!! They also mess up some wrapping in certain columns where I do in-place editing as the new icons are slightly bigger.

Gone are the nice green tick and red cross I used to have and in their place are grey boxes which look terrible and are completely unintuitive (when everything looks like a grey box where are the visual cues?).

This is incredibly frustrating. Why changes the skins AGAIN??

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sitefinitysteve
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answered on 29 Apr 2010, 05:05 AM
I know what you mean...I updated to the latest and all of a sudden my custom skins were borked on the radgrid...extra black borders where there weren't any before

I just want these things documented somewhere in the release notes...
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Dimo
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answered on 29 Apr 2010, 06:52 AM
@Steve,

The change in the RadGrid skinning (new base stylesheet) is explained in the "Changes and Backwards Compatibility" help article:

http://www.telerik.com/help/aspnet-ajax/grdbackwardcompatibility.html

It should be in the release notes too, but it seems that we have missed it - please excuse us. In addition, if you upgrade to Q1 2010 SP1, the borders will be OK, as we moved some styles from the base stylesheet to the skin stylesheet in order to prevent this problem.


@Paul

Sorry about your frustration. Some RadGrid buttons were changed as an UI improvement - now they have a button-like look, which implies an action. In addition, these buttons have consistent look and size across the different skins. Indeed, the Update and Cancel buttons are 2px larger than before. Let us know if you need help with those.


Best wishes,
Dimo
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Paul Brian
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answered on 29 Apr 2010, 07:13 AM
Thanks for replying Dimo but you miss my point.

I went through weeks of pain last year when the skins were changed wholesale. I can't believe I have to go through more of the same less than 12 months later. Your, "Sorry for your frustration" doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

Don't you see how wrong it is just to dump these changes on us without a second thought for the implications. I am the one left here trying to explain to my managers and customers why their application is 'broken' for the second time in the space of a year.

After the last time I was assured that it was a one-off optimisation for internal developement reasons. In other words, it was for YOUR benefit more than mine. Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, well... Again it seems that the only one benefitting from the change is YOU.

As a paying customer I really don't care too much about streamling YOUR internal processes. The Telerik controls are supposed to save ME time and effort, not cause me untold grief every six months.

I find it harder and harder to justify to my boss why we should continue to spend considerable sums of money with a company that has such a blatant disregard for its customers.

We have a period coming up where we have to consider how we go about rewriting our software for the next major release. I will be recommending a combination of PHP and jQuery because I cannot face this happening again in the future.
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Sharon Kalupske
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answered on 29 Apr 2010, 05:09 PM
I just want to add my two cents here too.  My company has spent much time fixing things that were working perfectly prior to a release.  Our dev staff spends countless hours doing regression testing just to make sure the site looks and works the same after taking an update putting our QA staff behind.  I agree better communication might be a good place to start.  Changes/Updates contained in a release seem to be documented in so many different places it is hard to keep track (forums, help site, blogs, release notes just to name a few). 

See this link for an example of an update discussed in a forum thread:
http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/aspnet-ajax/window/any-plans-for-quot-trendy-quot-skins.aspx#1182562

Another thought...can the release notes be more detailed?  Often a short one line comment does not fully explain the implications of an update/correction you made.
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Dimo
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answered on 30 Apr 2010, 02:06 PM
Hi Sharon,

Thank you for your feedback. With regard to better communication, we may use surveys from now on when doing non-trivial changes to our controls' appearance, in order to prevent surprises as the ones in the past.

Paul - the benefit of the base stylesheet is that skins become smaller and simpler and this change is for the benefit of customers, not us. The same applies for the change in the buttons' look.

Regards,
Dimo
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Paul Brian
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answered on 03 May 2010, 11:46 PM
I have no problem with improvements so long as they remain backwards-compatible.

Every time you change the skins you break my app! By all means make the change but make it default to the old behaviour by default and have a property of something for the new behaviour.

I can't trust a company that does this more than once and ignores their customers' frustrations.

Again I say, every time you change the skins you break my app! You cost me time and money. You don't warn me in advance.

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!

That's why I'm moving to PHP/jQuery for all my new development.
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