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ARGH!!!

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Ray
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Ray asked on 05 Feb 2014, 10:37 PM

I am getting really tied of working around Telerik bugs, caused by out of date updates..
Ie. when telerik are many releases behind dependent commercial products like jquery, and all AWS, VS, the list goes on and on..
Not sure if this is just not caring , or too lazy to bother..

Clearly Not acceptable..

When will this situation be addressed..






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Marin Bratanov
Telerik team
answered on 06 Feb 2014, 12:00 PM
Hello Ray,

I will get straight to each product you listed:
- jQuery - we cannot use v2 because they have dropped support for old IE versions which we still need to support. Thus, we are still using 1.9.1. You can find this information here and jQuery's versions here. There is no newer version we can use.
- AWS - the version of the assembly will be updated in the upcoming Q1 2014 release, as discussed in your support ticket and forum thread on the same matter.
- VS - we support VS 2013 with our first release after its official release. This is Q3 2013 on our end. There is no way to add support for a new product that has not been available when we were creating the previous versions. This is also true for browser compatibility, e.g., a version from 2011 cannot possibly support IE10 and IE11.

With all this in mind, could you explain what is lagging behind and what exactly you would like to see updated?

Regards,
Marin Bratanov
Telerik
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Ray
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answered on 06 Feb 2014, 10:01 PM

Firstly..
I expect that when a product is released Telerik will HAVE support, your excuse above is not acceptable, all products have many months of pre-releases for exactly this purpose, to suggest that you can only START when a product is released is quite "unbelievable"..

"not been available" is totally rubbish, all have been available.


The list is but a small section..
Lets take AWS, your current support is 4 versions plus 1 major version behind, this is totally unacceptable, and having a thread that says we will look at it some time in the future does not help anyone.. The current support is for second minor version, you are way back in a previous major version ( unacceptable)..

When version 2.0 was released telerik MUST have support, same for version 4,5 of dot net, vs 2013 IE 11 the list goes on and on..

IT IS UNACCEPABLE to not have support for released products..

Your release MUST match the requiremenst for linked supported products, not when you get around to it..

I expect telerick to support released product when they are released, nothign less is acceptable..
otherwise I spend my time doing your work for you, and I am paying you for support..








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Ray
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answered on 06 Feb 2014, 10:25 PM
"There is no newer version we can use"

What? jquery 2.0 supports IE9+ we are at IE11, I don't require you to support all previous versions of IE, just the ones that are in MS current support ( normal practice by every developer), and in most cases current plus last is good enough..

Saying we don't support the current version, because we are supporting obsolete versions is also unbelievable..
This stuff is software engineering 101..

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Michel
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answered on 07 Feb 2014, 10:52 AM
Hi Ray,  

Like you, I hate Telerik.  It's make ASPX page source horrible.   Thier controls demos look nice,  but when you use them on complex interfaces,  it's become a nightmare.  Since we've installed the last version of Telerik Q3 2013,  our server became totally instable.  Seems to be a dependencies issue with .Net Framework 4.0 and telerik.

But where I'm not agree with you,  is that Telerik needs to made support of older plateform.  Maybe YOU dont care,  but upgrading cost a lot and not all compagnies / organisations can affort it.  I remember in 2012, A huge hospital center (8000 computers) that where running IE 6...  You cannot just say...  Update your PC... ;)

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Marin Bratanov
Telerik team
answered on 07 Feb 2014, 03:42 PM
Hello guys,

Let me answer each query in turn:

@Ray:
- supporting the latest dev tools (VS, .NET, browser) - when a major version of a browser, VS or .NET is released officially our first release after that has support for it. For example, VS2013 was released on the 17th October 2013. Our next release was in mid-November and offers support for VS 2013. Our previous release was on the 16th of October, before VS. As with any product, what we shipped on the 16th was not wrapped up at noon and pushed out in the evening, but has had some time before that for testing and stabilization. If we examine IE11 we will see the same dates - official release on the 17th of October, after our Q3 2013 release, so our Q3 2013 SP1 release supports it. Chrome 32 comes out and breaks offset calculations in mid-January and in mid-February our Q3 2013 SP2 release supports it and has fixes for that. We cannot predict when new versions of other software will come out, so we work with what we have available.

- AWS version - it will be updated to the latest in Q1 2014 which is scheduled for the week 17th-21st  of February. We should not introduce such major changes in a service pack release because such releases are meant to alleviate any existing issues and improve stability.

- jQuery version - we have thousands of clients who build applications that need to target old browsers for reasons beyond their control (closed corporate environment, expected target audience, etc.) and we cannot break our promise that we work with older browsers. Offering that support has been a major goal for us since our control suite was created. IE6 is still not deprecated by MS, so we cannot drop it either. We do support IE11 however, since our Q3 2013 SP1 release in mid-November. Thus, we cover all options, not just the latest or the oldest.

@Michael:
- what HTML we render on a page - eye candy and a large set of features mean that we must have more elements, scripts and CSS than a pure HTML page that only targets a new browser. All things come with some cost, I am afraid. Creating the same user interface from scratch to support all browsers and have the same feature set is likely to leave you with nearly the same amount of code, but you will need to invest a lot of time in creating it.
Modern browsers offer advanced developer tools so examining a given element is possible even on complex pages, should one need to modify it.

- stability issues with Q3 2013 - we are not aware of such problems in this release. Perhaps the most notable issue with .NET4 is IE11 and you can read more about it in this blog post. If this is not the case I would advise opening a support ticket where we can discuss the case in detail so we can investigate it. I woudl also advise trying the Q3 2013 SP2 release (and the upcoming Q1 2014) because they have a few more months of development and fixes.

Regards,
Marin Bratanov
Telerik
If you want to get updates on new releases, tips and tricks and sneak peeks at our product labs directly from the developers working on the UI for ASP.NET AJAX, subscribe to the blog feed now.
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Ray
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answered on 07 Feb 2014, 09:52 PM

My qualification, is that if say MSoft does not support say IE7, then I do not expect telerik to provided support eaither, there must be a limit to the "old" supported proeucts to eb commercially viable..

My issue sis with not supporting "released" products..
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Ray
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answered on 07 Feb 2014, 10:01 PM
[quote]Marin Bratanov said:Hello guys,

Let me answer each query in turn:

@Ray:
We cannot predict when new versions of other software will come out, so we work with what we have available.
>> rubbish, just look at their deeveloper site, they dont just release products overnight, each major releasee has manay months of advice and testing time for Telerik..

Plus I dont care about your internals, you need to amtch to the external factors, in this case your cleint base..
Releases re NOT for your internal benefit, they are for the ones paying you support fees.


- AWS version - it will be updated to the latest in Q1 2014 which is scheduled for the week 17th-21st  of February. We should not introduce such major changes in a service pack release because such releases are meant to alleviate any existing issues and improve stability.
>> WRONG, mast at minium match your relase after their release 2.0, see issue of SUPPOT..
In this instance I had to down load your source send  many hrs fixed and updatign so I can use telerck to support my cleinst..
I am PAYING telerik to do this, why must I do the work for you!!!
ARGH!!


- jQuery version - we have thousands of clients who build applications that need to target old browsers for reasons beyond their control (closed corporate environment, expected target audience, etc.) and we cannot break our promise that we work with older browsers.
>> ABSOLUTE TECHNICAL RUBBISH..
Do the same as you do with multiple dotnet versions today..
This is NOT rocket science..

Offering that support has been a major goal for us since our control suite was created. IE6 is still not deprecated by MS, so we cannot drop it either. We do support IE11 however, since our Q3 2013 SP1 release in mid-November. Thus, we cover all options, not just the latest or the oldest.
>> NO YOU DONT! this is the issue..

Regards,
Marin Bratanov
Telerik
If you want to get updates on new releases, tips and tricks and sneak peeks at our product labs directly from the developers working on the UI for ASP.NET AJAX, subscribe to the blog feed now.
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Ray
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answered on 09 Feb 2014, 09:48 PM
"IE6 is still not deprecated by MS"

I see part of the issue, IE6 support finnished 5 years ago, extended supprot is NOT support, when was the alst serviec pack or uipdate to IE6... yes some 5 years ago..

But I realy dont care if you want to supporte outdated products, your call..
I DO CARE that you DONT support current relased products..
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Ray
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answered on 10 Feb 2014, 07:26 PM
NO PROGRES, SO I ASSUME TELERIK SIMPLY DONT CARE..
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Georgi Tunev
Telerik team
answered on 12 Feb 2014, 03:41 PM
Hello guys,

Believe it or not, we actually do care. The thread was forwarded to me for review and it took some time to gather all info and speak with our lead devs regarding this case.

I see that Marin and Peter have already shared some info about what are the reasons on our side to follow certain release cycle. I understand your frustration but the truth is that although theoretically possible to release a new version of all products whenever related third-party products get updated, that would mean that one will have to release let's say weekly. This sounds great till you think about how users will find the right version for them. In addition, providing support for older browsers is important for us - as Michel said there are a lot of users, especially in big corporations who use old equipment. We'd really love to play with all the new toys the new browsers provide, but we have to make compromises sometimes.

As for beta / preview versions, I assure you that there are many products who introduce breaking changes in their official release (as compared to the beta / previews previously released) which is why it is our policy to wait for the official version and then to update our products accordingly. Of course this doesn't mean that we don't use previews / betas for testing and to make sure that our products will work as expected, but official support is announced only after the corresponding third party product has its official version released.

Lastly, I would like to ask you to refrain from using strong language in our forums. Qualifying statements / products as "rubbish", "brain dead", etc. will not be tolerated - politeness and mutual respect are of key importance for our business relationship. 


Regards,

Georgi Tunev
Technical Support Director
Telerik
If you want to get updates on new releases, tips and tricks and sneak peeks at our product labs directly from the developers working on the UI for ASP.NET AJAX, subscribe to the blog feed now.
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Ray
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answered on 12 Feb 2014, 09:48 PM
I now see the problem..
1. Nothing in the post to actually addres the issue..
2. Always atatck the client who pays you rather than address the issue..

This is not rocket science group like telerik do it each and every day, but with a better result.
Simply want the support, I am paying for nothing less..



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Georgi Tunev
Telerik team
answered on 14 Feb 2014, 01:34 PM

I am not attacking you, Ray. I just asked to avoid strong language in the forums, that's all. We are doing our best to keep our products updated with the third-party tools that we support and this is synced with both the third-party's releases and our own. Lastly, before claiming official support for any tool, we wait for its official version to be released - using betas and previews turned out to be a recipe for disaster in the past.



Regards,
Georgi Tunev
Telerik
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Ray
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answered on 16 Feb 2014, 07:07 AM
Lets just stick to the facts..
Tell me why telerick is not eevn on the last major release, let alone last minor release, you are back on version 1 AWS is on the send minor of version two..

Do you actually know what having to link multiple verison fo softawere actually emans for developers?
And the ONLY sioftware still on verison 1 is Telerick 100% of all my other suppliers which I pay a lot less than the sevral 1,000 I have paid Telerick are up to date..

So stop all the  waffle (the corerct ienglish term for this), and satrt by addressing the issue, not attackign your paying clinest while doign absolutey nothing to actually address the issues raised..



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Georgi Tunev
Telerik team
answered on 19 Feb 2014, 02:10 PM


To answer your questions - v2 was released several weeks after our latest major release. Since it introduced changes in the API, we decided to update with the next major version - Q1 2014 which will be out in less than a week.



Regards,
Georgi Tunev
Telerik
If you want to get updates on new releases, tips and tricks and sneak peeks at our product labs directly from the developers working on the UI for ASP.NET AJAX, subscribe to the blog feed now.
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Marin Bratanov
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Ray
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Georgi Tunev
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