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Better intro and walkthrough for getting started with KendoUI in real-world context

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Carl
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Carl asked on 25 Apr 2012, 07:46 PM
I've already seen too many forum post about problems, so I'm looking for a better intro and walkthrough for getting started that does NOT make any assumptions.

Yes, I understand that KendoUI is HTML5+jQuery+CSS but when building multi-targeted mobile apps for iOS, Android, etc must the HTML5 app be served from a web server?  Or will it be accessed from an app installed on the mobile device after packaging with PhoneGap? So that the HTML5 web pages are actually packaged into the app that is installed on each mobile phone device?

And if packaged with PhoneGap, where do you start: with a PhoneGap project?  Or with a Visual Studio project?  Especially if you want to build upon existing ASP.NET project dll's and ASP.NET MVC3 or MVC4 projects?

A complete walkthrough clarifying which development steps to complete in which development environment would prevent time wasted on trial and error.   Especially for the situation where I want to develop in Visual Studio with ASP.NET MVC 4 plus KendoUI on PC Windows, then eventually get to an iOS app for iPad and iPhone on Apple.

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Dimo
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answered on 26 Apr 2012, 10:25 AM
Hi Carl,

The workflow for creating a mobile app with PhoneGap is described on their website. The good thing is that it is not influenced by the fact that you are using Kendo UI, because the Kendo UI web and mobile widgets are by no means special or different from any other HTML markup, styles and scripts that you may have.

No matter whether you are using Kendo UI web widgets, or Kendo UI mobile widgets, you can eiher produce a mobile app with PhoneGap, or run a web app on a web server.

When using a PhoneGap mobile app, it is not recommended to serve any HTML markup or script files directly from a web server. For example, such an application will not make it to the Apple's app store due to security restrictions. You can use server-side web services for data.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions related to building applications with Kendo UI.

All the best,
Dimo
the Telerik team
Join us on our journey to create the world's most complete HTML 5 UI Framework - download Kendo UI now!
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Carl
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answered on 26 Apr 2012, 03:07 PM
Thanks for remarks, but I'm still looking for some kind of a basic walk-through for a real-world context that would be helpful to experienced web developers who have major investment in web apps built from multiple projects in Visual Studio.  It is not a trivial matter to move to mobile development.

Just pointing me to the "getting started" at PhoneGap does not answer some of the basic questions here.  Sure, the PhoneGap website does give you a walkthrough for Google Android which has to be done in Eclipse and for Apple iOS which has to be done in Xcode.  But that does not exactly explain the relationship to Visual Studio, nor the desired approach of leveraging existing web app projects built in ASP.NET and Visual Studio.  And what about integrating with projects built with Telerik MVC extensions?  And all the KendoUI hype is supposed to be about developing just once and then being able to use the same code on multiple different mobile device platforms.

So where's a real-world scenario that starts out in a Visual Studio project?  And what kind of a VS 2010 (or VS 11 beta) project is best to use for development in Visual Studio if restricted only to HTML5 + JavaScript + CSS that then has to be integrated into multiple different PhoneGap projects on multiple different IDE platforms ranging from Eclipse, Xcode, etc?  And if PhoneGap cannot handle any ASP.NET code, then how do we leverage existing web apps built on ASP.NET? What are the alternatives?  Xamarin "monotouch for iOS" and "mono for Android"?

So far, I have the sense that it seems that I must start from scratch for mobile with only HTML5+JS+CSS; in other words, abandon my existing web app projects built in ASP.NET and do not attempt to port them to mobile apps.

I hope anybody with experience can also offer some comments with recommendations. Thanks!
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Dimo
Telerik team
answered on 27 Apr 2012, 07:18 AM
Hello Carl,

The most important thing is that HTML/CSS/JS apps built for mobile devices and packaged with PhoneGap *cannot* use any server-side code, except web services for data, which will be hosted somewhere else online. I guess this answers your questions about Visual Studio, MVC extensions and whether you should start from scratch - you may need to do so. That's why Kendo UI can be used for "develop once - use one multiple platforms" - because the application can be used both on a web server or packaged with PhoneGap.

It doesn't really matter what kind of a Visual Studio project you are using as long as it can be stripped down to a collection of HTML/CSS/JS files that work no matter in what folder you place them. If you will develop for Windows Phone 7, you can use the PhoneGapStarter project template for Visual Studio, but only in this case.

I hope I have managed to throw enough light on the matter. All the above information applies in the same fashion, no matter whether you are using Kendo UI or not.

Regards,
Dimo
the Telerik team
Join us on our journey to create the world's most complete HTML 5 UI Framework - download Kendo UI now!
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Bogie
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answered on 27 Apr 2012, 05:11 PM
Here this should help.  I was looking for the exact same thing, and came across this post.  Was very helpful in getting the big picture.  It covers all the aspects you asked about...

http://www.aspnetwiki.com/page:kendo-ui-mobile-task-manager-part-1 
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Carl
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answered on 01 May 2012, 07:33 PM
Bogie and Dimo,

Thanks for helpful links.  Here's another link for the "big picture" entry to JavaScript, CSS and HTML5 that is supposed to be the foundation for KendoUI:

http://blog.reybango.com/the-big-list-of-javascript-css-and-html-development-tools-libraries-projects-and-books/

Dimo,

I'm glad to see that you edited your reply to delete some of your remarks that were not the kind to encourage me to be loyal to Telerik and to use KendoUI.

Communicating clearly how and why I should use Telerik products will always be within the scope of marketing and support for those products.  Why should I bother to migrate to KendoUI from Telerik RadControls for Windows Phone 7?  Why should I bother to migrate to KendoUI from Telerik Extensions for MVC?  What are the advantages and disadvantages?  How do I exploit prior investment in existing work? Or do I have to start from scratch? 

The main reason for my considering KendoUI was the hope that I could leverage my existing work in projects based on other Telerik products, in particular, those mentioned above.  But if I do have to start from scratch, then I may not be convinced, and then why not start out from scratch in an entirely new world with DART from Google?!?.  Interested readers can check out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dart_%28programming_language%29

So I do believe that Telerik should make a better effort to support existing Telerik customers to migrate from one Telerik product to another in the product line without dismissing their questions as "unsupported" because it is "common knowledge". 

One way to do that would be for Telerik to provide a starter project template for Visual Studio that would enable a KendoUI app that is interoperable with Telerik RadControls for Windows Phone 7, and another starter project template for Visual Studio that would enable a KendoUI app that is interoperable with Telerik Extensions for MVC.
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Dimo
Telerik team
answered on 02 May 2012, 08:20 AM
Hello Carl,

The main reasons one would want to use Kendo UI are outlined in the Kendo UI website (click and click), namely - performance, server platform independence, mobile device compatibility and usage of latest know-how and client technologies. The main disadvantage of Kendo UI being a new product is that it is still catching up in terms of features and widget count, e.g. with RadControls for ASP.NET AJAX, which have a years-long history.

Generally, we avoid pointing to one of our product lines and stating "this is the best, everyone should migrate", as this cannot be true. Every developer has the freedom to choose which toolset will serve his purpose best, we can only facilitate this decision, as you said. On the other hand, I personally recommend Kendo UI Web over our MVC extensions to developers that ask what to use in a new application, because the two have similar feature sets, Kendo UI is newer and better developed, and evolving with fast pace.

Finally, we have an idea to provide some ready-to-use snippets and templates for Kendo UI in the future, as well as some larger integration demos.

Kind regards,
Dimo
the Telerik team
Join us on our journey to create the world's most complete HTML 5 UI Framework - download Kendo UI now!
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Carl
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Dimo
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Carl
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Bogie
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