Forum Search

35 posts, 0 answers
  1. Chris O
    Chris O avatar
    56 posts
    Member since:
    May 2006

    Posted 31 Aug 2006 Link to this post

    Has the forum search been changed or am I just going crazy.  What happened to being able to select the particular control forum you want to search in?
  2. Natalie Farah
    Admin
    Natalie Farah avatar
    170 posts

    Posted 31 Aug 2006 Link to this post

    Hi Chris,

    You are right that the forums search has been changed. The removal of the possibility to search in a particular forum is not the only change. We actually updated the website with a completely new search which is much more powerful and faster than the old one.

    By including the control's name in the search string you can easily limit the search results to threads concerning the product you are interested in. That's why we believe that the benefits of the new search will outweigh the disadvantage of the missing functionality.

    Greetings,
    Natalie Farah
    the telerik team
  3. Chris O
    Chris O avatar
    56 posts
    Member since:
    May 2006

    Posted 31 Aug 2006 Link to this post

    I guess it will just take a while to get used to.  I am just one of those complacent people who figure something out and stay with it...

    Thanks,
    Chris
  4. Todd Anglin
    Todd Anglin avatar
    2040 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2005

    Posted 02 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie,

    I wish I could agree that the benefits outweighed the changes, but I really can't. I find the new search tool a HUGE step backwards when trying to search the forums. It is much more difficult to find forum threads for a specific product, largely due to how the search results are formatted.

    I've relied heavily on the functionality of the previous search and this new search is just not a step in the right direction. Sorry. :(

    Thanks~
  5. Jimmy Stuart
    Jimmy Stuart avatar
    71 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 03 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie,

    I also am not impressed with the new search.  Removing the ability to search only a specific subforum is very limiting.  Also as Todd mentioned the formatting for the search results is not good at all. 

    At a minimum please give us back to ability to search a certain part of the site.  For instance I was looking for examples on using a radcombox in the EditFormTemplate of a RadGrid and having already looked at the QuickStart, KB, and Code Gallery I tried to search the RadGrid forum.  Only to find out I have to wade through pages of matches that I ALREADY know don't give me what I'm looking for.

    Thanks,

    Jimmy
  6. Jason Maronge
    Jason Maronge avatar
    321 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2005

    Posted 03 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie,

        I also want to agree with Todd and Jimmy.  I is very frustrating when looking for a particular search. 

    If including the control's name in the search string is how the results are limited now can Telerik add back the checkboxes and insert the checked items in the search string for us.  I do not think it is an acceptable solution to say that now we have to type out the control's name when before all we had to do was check a box.  This issue is compounded when we want to search multiple controls for a search string. 

    Also I really think that the Control Name column needs to be added back to the results.  That way we know what control the result is from and don't waste time looking at controls that we do not care about. 

    The way the results are returned is very confusing.  I just tried a search for the word Ajax since I knew it would return a lot of results.  I got a page that said at the top "Results 1 - 10 of about 2700 for ajax. Search took 0.23 seconds."  No where on the page did i see any way to page to see the rest of the results. It took a while to realize the statement at the bottom.  "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 10 already displayed.
    If you like, you can
    repeat the search with the omitted results included.
    "
    It isn't until yu click this that you get the ability to page the results.  I think that this process should be reversed.  Giving us the results with the paging option first and then if we want to limit the results do that.  It could even be a configuration option in our settings incase some may want it the current way.  

    I think that Telerik has taken a step back on their forum.  Just my $.02

    Jason
  7. Natalie Farah
    Admin
    Natalie Farah avatar
    170 posts

    Posted 04 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hello everyone,

    I am really sorry to hear about your disappointment from the new forums search.

    First, I would like to comment the old one. If you have ever tried searching a word that is found in a large number of threads, probably you have noticed that it can be very slow and sometimes timeout without returning any results. Even worse, when a single visitor was using the search, the website was getting slower for all other users currently browsing. That is the main reason the change was inevitable.

    Unfortunately, the new one does not provide the possibility to search in specific forums - if it had, we were going to bring it back without a second thought.

    Concerning the "repeat search with omitted results included" - that's the way the search works - it is not something we can configure. I am sure the problem here is that all website visitors are still not used to the new search and this problem will be resolved with time.

    Finally, you have a really good point concerning the results page layout - we'll do our best to make it easier to find the result(s) you actually need.

    Once again again I would like to apologize from the inconvenience caused.

    Greetings,
    Natalie Farah
    the telerik team
  8. Natalie Farah
    Admin
    Natalie Farah avatar
    170 posts

    Posted 04 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hello,

    This is just a brief follow up on my previous posting. As I mentioned, I am sure part of the frustration caused by the change in the forums search is a result of the different logic of the new one. That's why I believe taking a quick look at our Search tips will help you get used to the new functionality more quickly. These tips apply not only to the forums search, but also to the general site search that you see on every page, so it will be worth spending a few minutes reading them.

    Kind regards,
    Natalie Farah
    the telerik team
  9. Todd Anglin
    Todd Anglin avatar
    2040 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2005

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie,

    I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place with the site's search, so I apologize in advance that we're being so picky here. Many of us (myself included) use the telerik site almost everyday, so a big change to the search tool (especially one that removes functionality) has a big impact on our daily productivity.

    That said, I cannot stress to you enough how much the new search has impacted my ability to search and use the knowledge in the forums. I did a test search just now looking for topics about grid events in ajax using the query "r.a.d.ajax grid events" and got the following results:

    rad.grid by telerik

    rad.grid by telerik

    rad.grid by telerik

    ASP .NET Grid Component: Ajax Datagrid Rad Grid Control

    Using Find Control in Grid Events - telerik Forum

    Getting Grid events from panelbar template - telerik Forum

    rad.rotator by telerik

    rad.treeview skinobject

    rad.controls by telerik

    [PDF] Enabling AJAX in ASP.NET with No Code

    [PDF] The telerik rad.controls Suite: Above and Beyond

    rad.panelbar skinobject

    News - telerik

    Combobox Component for ASP .NET – Rad Combobox

    rad.rotator

    telerik | News

    As you can see, my results were both scattered and difficult to parse. In the "old" search, I could have focused my search to the ajax product forum, search for grid events, and received several clear and easy to read forum threads dealing with grid events in ajax. From question to answer in 30 seconds.

    Even though this search is faster performance wise, it is greatly extending the time between searching with a question and finding knowledge in the forums with an answer. I don't know if it is possible to optimize the old search or really improve the new search, but I still assert that what was once a great tool that I used everyday is now just another broken, hard to use web search tool.

    Thanks~

  10. Kenneth
    Kenneth avatar
    29 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2004

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I totally agree with the others, the new search is a huge step backward in getting usable results. I have read the search-tips without getting any better results.

    I prefer a search engine which is a little bit slower where you can specify a product category rather than a faster one which returns results from the entire forum.

    Please, give us a possibilty to specify a product category again!

    Regards
    Kenneth
  11. Bruce Hochstetler
    Bruce Hochstetler avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2005

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hi all,
    I agree with everyone else, the new search tool is a big step backwards. My main complaint is the format of the returned data and why should I have to enter the component as part of the search; how is this progress. Natalie's comments about being slow and timing out... well I personally never experienced that, maybe others did. Anyway, please bring back the good old slow cumbersome search tool that I've come to rely on every day.
    Thanks,
    Bruce
  12. Todd Anglin
    Todd Anglin avatar
    2040 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2005

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Bruce,

    I agree. Slow and functional was a much better customer experience than fast and devoid of function. Like you, I rarely had the site timeout on me (and I'm on the site A LOT!); the one or two occasions that it did timeout could be quickly resolved by a simple refresh.

    For the record, I'd wait an extra 15 - 30 seconds to get a quality search result that was only from the product forum that I wanted to search. I'm not sure what kind of load the old search was putting on the telerik database servers (clearly it was a good bit), but I'd donate a few dollars to stick some extra ram in the servers and bring it back. ;-)

    Thanks~
  13. Bruce Hochstetler
    Bruce Hochstetler avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2005

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hey Todd,
    It would have been nice if Telerik would have put the search in Beta or something; maybe they did and I missed it. At least we would have had some idea as to what was coming and provide some feedback, etc.... Me thinks it is too late for changing back to the old ways.
    Later,
    Bruce
  14. Chris O
    Chris O avatar
    56 posts
    Member since:
    May 2006

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    could you bring the old search forum back as part of an 'advanced' search feature?  Even limit the search to just one particular forum with a dropdown/radio selection instead of the check each option to maybe enhance the speed of the old way?

    Just some ideas.
    Chris
  15. davidr
    davidr avatar
    60 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2006

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Yes, bring back the old search.  This new one is horrible.  I did a search on ajaxrequest() and it came up with four results.  It like your guys search results is limited or something.  Also, I hate that I can't search just on the specific controls I want to look in.  Its bring up results that don't even relate with want I'm searching on.  I came on today to look something up.  Got squat, fustrated, and just closed the browser.  The second time I came back ran the same search I finally saw the omitted link at the bottom.  Most people aren't looking for a paragraph to read to understand they need to click a link in order to show all of the omitted results.  I think almost every forum I've ever been on always has a paging system on the bottom, which I know you get once you click the Omitted link.  Can't you do a beta test next time and get feedback before just changing it under our legs?  I didnt get many timeouts in the past. 
  16. Jeremy Wadsworth
    Jeremy Wadsworth avatar
    41 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 05 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I would like to put in my comment as well that the new search feature is not nearly as productive as the old search. I hope it does not remain this way for long.

    Jeremy
  17. Eric Kemp
    Eric Kemp avatar
    109 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2004

    Posted 06 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Another vote for the old search. I can't find anything anymore.
  18. Tom Jaspering
    Tom Jaspering avatar
    34 posts
    Member since:
    May 2006

    Posted 06 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I agree that the new search is less than optimal. Balancing performance and functionality is always tricky, but in this case I think you leaned a little too far towards performance.

    That said, I would suggest a possible compromise that a company I worked for used in a similar situation. Why not make both forms of searching available? Make the new "fast" search the default approach and provide an optional, forum specific, search using your old code.

    That's my two cents.
  19. David Gardiner
    David Gardiner avatar
    16 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 06 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one that's disappointed about the search change.

    If you're currently browsing a specific forum, then the obvious, intuitive thing is that search should just search that forum.

    That's what the average user would expect it to do.

    That's what it should do.

    You shouldn't have to go and read 'Search Hints' to figure that out.

    Please fix this or revert back to the old search. The costs outweigh the benefits as far as I'm concerned.

    -david
  20. Natalie Farah
    Admin
    Natalie Farah avatar
    170 posts

    Posted 07 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hello,

    Thank you all for expressing your opinions and letting us know what functionality we need to provide on our website in order to enhance user experience. After receiving so much feedback in favor of the old forums search, it seems that there is no way to leave the current situation. At the same time, due to performance issues we cannot rollback completely to the old search. That's why we are going to provide something in between. We'll leave the old new search as the default one (edit: I made a mistake, thanks, Todd :). However, we'll add an advanced search option, which will use the old functionality. In order to avoid heavy load on the website, in the advanced search we'll allow the selection of a single forum only. In case someone wants to search in more than one forum, he/she will need to use the new search.

    We hope everyone will benefit from this solution, and it will alleviate the negative impressions from the recent change.

    Greetings,
    Natalie Farah
    the telerik team
  21. Jeff Durrant
    Jeff Durrant avatar
    9 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2005

    Posted 07 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie and the telerik team,

    Thank you for being responsive on this issue.  I agree with the other posters here, and I do not believe we are a vocal minority.

    The old search gave me the results I wanted/needed.  The new one does not.  That's the bottom line.

    I certainly understand the reasons behind the change; however, "slow" beats "fast but almost worthless" every time.


  22. Todd Anglin
    Todd Anglin avatar
    2040 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2005

    Posted 07 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Natalie,

    Thank you very much for responding to the community feedback. I think your proposed solution is very reasonable.

    Just to clarify, the default search will be the new search (I think you may have had a typo) and the advanced search will be the "old" functionality. As long its easy for me to straight to the advanced search (in other words, I don't have to do a basic search and then click an advanced button on the results page search to search the forums), I'll be happy. Perhaps you can make the advanced search default when you are in the forums?

    Either way, thank you, thank you for bringing back the old functionality. I think it is a very smart move. I don't think you realize how much better your "old" search is than most search tools on a lot of your competitor's sites; it's a real competitive advantage that you should leverage as long as you can!

    Will we be seeing the update with the old search this weekend?

    Thanks~
  23. davidr
    davidr avatar
    60 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2006

    Posted 07 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I agree with Todd on that were their old search capability had advantage over their competitors.  That is one of the main reason I like Telerik is their support response and support forums.  The ease to search and get results and previous posting that people had a similar experience.  Glad we will have the old one back.

    Thanks,

    David
  24. Jason Maronge
    Jason Maronge avatar
    321 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2005

    Posted 08 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    I also wanted to thank Natalie for working on this.  It is not easy when you are the one that is be bombarded with all the complaints.  This is a perfect example of why telerik is above all the other control vendors out there.  When their customers do not like something they try and correct it as fast as they can. 

    Thanks again,

    Jason
  25. Jason Maronge
    Jason Maronge avatar
    321 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2005

    Posted 21 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Just wanted to say thanks for getting the old search back.  Again telerik has responded to make their customers happy.  Especially to Natalie who had to deal with all of us during this.

    Thanks,

    Jason
  26. Todd Anglin
    Todd Anglin avatar
    2040 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2005

    Posted 21 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Agreed. Thank you Natalie for bringing back the old search in a new, easy to access interface. I hope that our searching won't bog down the servers too much. =)

    Thanks~
  27. Jeremy Wadsworth
    Jeremy Wadsworth avatar
    41 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 21 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Indeed, thank you so much.

    Jeremy
  28. Natalie Farah
    Admin
    Natalie Farah avatar
    170 posts

    Posted 22 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Hello everyone,

    I would like to thank you all for expressing your appreciation for the work done by our webteam during the past weeks. I am glad to see that bringing back the old forums search has improved your experience on our website and hope everyone will really benefit from this feature.

    Regards,
    Natalie Farah
    the telerik team
  29. Chris O
    Chris O avatar
    56 posts
    Member since:
    May 2006

    Posted 22 Sep 2006 Link to this post

    Thank You!!!
  30. Kenneth
    Kenneth avatar
    29 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2004

    Posted 24 Nov 2006 Link to this post

    Sorry for bringing up this issue again, but wasn't it possible to select mutiple forums before in "advanced search"? I do I remember wrong?

    It would be nice to have that feature (again?).

    Regards
Back to Top