Using Google Map as MapSource

[Ching-Yen]

Hi,

Just wondering if we can use Google Map as the Map Source?

Please advice.

[Andrey]

Hi Ching-Yen,

There are no technical problems to have built-in google map provider for our control, but there are licensing problems regarding using google map data without google API.

Greetings,
Andrey Murzov
the Telerik team

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[Lorenzo Castrico]

Hello,
I don't understand your answer. Of course i need my google api key to access google map.
Why don't you just release a provider and i pass my key as a parameter (check this asp net control: http://googlemaps.subgurim.net/ )
Could you please explain what kind of problem are you facing (licensing?)

Regards

[Bartholomeo Rocca]

Hello Vincenzo,

I believe it's the Google Maps licensing agreement (http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html) that effectively rules out Silverlight with this statement:

<Quote>
2. Restrictions on Use. Unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), you must not:
(a) access or use the Products or any Content through any technology or means other than those provided in the Products, or through other explicitly authorized means Google may designate (such as through the Google Maps/Google Earth APIs);
</Quote>


Greetings,
Bart.

[SwanB]

This may see obvious(and I may be overlooking something), but would't the Telerik provider use the Google API to access the Google maps ?
(and therefore probably not violate the licencing terms ?)

I would assume that Google has as much interest as any, that we use their maps and pay their fees when applicable to utilise their product.

Regards,
Swan B

[Joshua Holt]

@SwamB:  You are correct that Telerik would want to use the Google API if possible, unfortunately at this time Google only provides a JavaScript API, and a Flash API. The Telerik Map control uses direct tile access for the existing providers.  MS is fine with this as is OSM. However, Google does not allow this currently.  As Bart pointed out, in the ToS you agree to only use the tiles in the products/APIs they provide. You can voice your opinion on the issue here: http://code.google.com/p/gmaps-api-issues/issues/detail?id=1396, and hopefully Google will loosen the reigns a little bit, or provide an API for tile access as Bing does.

Joshua Holt

[Stephan]

The Licencing is a kicker with Bing, I am building a WPF Dashboard similar to the one in the examples and I found that 50% of my transactions were billable.  When I verified this with Bing our Company would need to purchase a Lic, cost?

• Platform Access with up to 100 Users $6,000
• Platform Access with up to 500 Users $15,000
• Platform Access with up to 1000 Users $21,000

This stopped me right in my tracks.  Now checking with Google for Lic. for less then 10 users.

[Andrey]

Hi Stephan,

Please, keep in mind that you can't use Google tile server with RadMap. It will violate their license agreement.

All the best,

Andrey Murzov

the Telerik team

[Stephan]

That is why I am now looking at useing a web browser control and Google Maps or Google Earth.  It seems kind of silly that if we are using Teleriks control for Maps why we should have to pay a Licence fee for something everyone else on the web has free access to.  Now if I was on their site downloading their controls and code it would makes sence to pay to play, but I payed Telerik to play.  Even with google you have soe limitations but not as bad as Bing.  Every connection to Bing with a WPF application generates a chargeable transaction.  I have not looked to close on this but maybe RadMap should connect to OpenStreet.

[Andrey]

Hi Stephan,

Telerik don't create and/or provide any map tiles (images). With RadMap we provide a way to use 3d party imagery services (like Bing, OpenStreet, ArcGis, WMS or your own imagery service) to show map tiles if it doesn't brake 3d party service usage policy. If service is payable (like Bing) then it is your own responsibility to conclude an agreement with 3d party company.

All the best,

Andrey Murzov

the Telerik team

[Stephan]

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about violating any licence's.  I'm just saying that your control makes it easy to do this mapping, but the true cost of ownership is beyond what some companies can afford.  An example would be that if you want to just put element on the map for each of your customers, that requires a licence's.  Bing $6,000 & now Google is $10,000 a year.  These licence fee's now make your control something that we could never use and my guess is any small company.  The ROI just is not there, I will just have to figure out how to do what I want outside my application in Google Earth or some other Free Mapping Service.  

Thanks
Stephan

[Andrey]

Hello Stephan,

Nothing prevents you from using the free map imagery services (OpenStreet for example) from RadMap as well. I hope that this is an option for you.

All the best,

Andrey Murzov

the Telerik team

[Gabe]

Unfortunately Openstreet does not support SSL and I have so far been able to find any direct tile providers that do support SSL.  So if your app requires SSL which many apps do and I also suspect is the case for many other Telerik users, you appear to be out of luck.  The problem is that there is no reason for providers to use SSL for the map data unless they are billing you for it.  There are other SSL providers other than Bing, but they only seem to have a javascript or Flash API.

Bing is very expensive for large applications as well, because for more users, you get more transactions.  I was seeing around 50-100 billable transactions for very light usage.  My quote from Bing as a reference was $12,000 for 1,000,000 transactions. 

I was able to make a partial offline tile server on my website, however this is very limited due to the size of the tiles.  Zoom 6 requires 32MB, zoom 7 = 125MB...max zoom is over 500 TB.  So the size is very limiting.  There is a separate post talking about the custom tile server for anyone interested in that.  I did also write my own tile downloader to get the raw tiles to set that up as I was unable to find a working one.  So right now we would likely carry zoom 6 or 7 and not have the full detail as we would like.

So I am still investigating for our app as well, how we can access the full detailed map over SSL.

[Stephan]

What I ended up doing for my solution was to use Google Earth.  Then using the web Control put Google Earth in that.  Works for what i need for now.

[Gabe]

Can you elaborate?  Do you mean you are using Google's javascript api to render the map and then and pulling in that frame onto the silverlight page?

I was considering trying that also, but the google license terms prohibit using it for paid apps, and I thought it was quite expensive as well to license?  I have business objects bound to the pins in the map which have menus and navigation, etc for other silverlight controls, so I was doubting I could still do that binding on an external map in this manner?  Do you have insight on any of that?

[Stephan]

Actually I am doing it in WPF, as long as your transactions are below 2500 per day and less then 10 way points per request (for distance services).  Yes, I am using the Java Script API's and all I am really showing is where are all of our customers in the US.  I have been watching my testing and it looks like that since I stored the GEO codes for all my customers I don't take a hit for them each time I run the app.  With Bing everytime I ran the app I had a billable transation.  I just checked again and for the last 28 days i have no billable transactions and it shows my app was the reffer to the service.

[Libertad]

Hi Gabe,
What method are you using in your offline tile server? Do you just store tiles as images on your server drive or store them directly in a database? I think it may reduce the size needed if you use database specially if you filter the tiles and don't getting the same tiles. you know that there are lot of same images in world map such as seas and oceans. 
anyway I wonder if I have your tile downloader. is it possible to share it with me?
thank you in advance.