Data Access 2015.2 624 Version Visual Designer

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41 posts, 0 answers
  1. Brian
    Brian avatar
    40 posts
    Member since:
    Oct 2008

    Posted 24 Jun 2015 Link to this post

    Why the heck would you remove the Visual Designer in Visual Studio?!!!?!???  That is crazy, as it is one of the main reasons I've used OpenAccess since it a paid product in DevCraft Complete.  I don't want a code only ORM -- that is like the bad old days of nHibernate.  Please fix this ASAP.  I still don't like that the ORM was made free, by the way, I want ongoing, active development that is first class.  You seem to have done that, which is great, but this latest move seems to indicate otherwise.

     I'm also not happy with the fact that I had to install four NuGet to find the assemblies, which I only seem to be able to install in my main WPF gui project automatically.  I have a COTS/Telerik/OpenAccess folder in my solution, which is shared by several projects.  I put my ORMs in dedicated ORM projects that the WPF or ASP.NET projects reference.  I followed the steps on how to use the ORM without installing it to solve most of my issues.  I'm able to compile everything, but the WPF projects say they can't find the embedded .rlinq file in the ORM assmbly, so it breaks all of my apps.

    I uses the OpenAccessNuGet.targets file as my OpenAccess.targets file, as I did not see it anywhere else (this is also a problem).  I have the following in my  ropertyGroup:

        

    <OpenAccessPath Condition="'$(OpenAccessPath)'==''">$(SolutionDir)COTS\Telerik\OpenAccess\</OpenAccessPath>
    <EnhancerAssembly Condition="'$(EnhancerAssembly)'==''">$(OpenAccessPath)enhancer.exe</EnhancerAssembly>

    Very frustrated, very long time Telerik customer.  Please help!

     

  2. Brian
    Brian avatar
    40 posts
    Member since:
    Oct 2008

    Posted 26 Jun 2015 Link to this post

    Reading between the lines, it appears that Progress software just wants to maintain DataAccess for use in its own products.

     Looks like I'm going to need to switch to Entity Framework, which is actively developed and supported by Microsoft.  Is there a best practice to convert RLINQ projects to Entity Framework?  I see there is a way to go the other direction.

  3. Viktor Zhivkov
    Admin
    Viktor Zhivkov avatar
    324 posts

    Posted 29 Jun 2015 Link to this post

    Hello Brian,

    Thank you for your honest feedback about our recent move to stop development of Telerik Data Access integration with Visual Studio.
    I understand your frustration. The fact that we are no longer shipping our Visual Designer does not mean that you are forced to stop using Q1 2015 (or any earlier) version of Telerik Data Access that contains all the tools that you are used to.
    We will continue to deliver Q1 2015 package to existing clients when they request it (or you can actually download it from Your Account page in our site) and we will be offering help and guidance through either our support system or the community forums.
    Moving away from Visual Studio integration will allow us to focus our attention to the runtime of the product and some other projects and we believe these are the right things to invest our time and effort into.
    In general you have two options:
    • continue using Q1 2015 version with RLINQ models without any additional effort
    • migrate to code-only mapping and NuGet packages
    Our recommendation for projects that are pass their active development phase is to use the first option, while projects that are just starting or in active development should be migrated to code-only mapping. 
    Of course you are the one that should make the choice according to your specific situation.

    Getting back to your problem at hand - OpenAccessNuGet.targets is optimized to work with Fluent models by default. You need to enable enhancing of RLINQ models there before you can use it. You have to set UseXmlMapping build variable to true. You have two options to do that:
    1. Add <UseXmlMapping>true</UseXmlMapping> to your model project file like this: 
      1.<!-- Enable enhancing of RLINQ models when using NuGet packages -->
      2.<PropertyGroup>
      3.    <UseXmlMapping>true</UseXmlMapping>
      4.</PropertyGroup>
      Please add the code snippet above after between the last configuration-related PropertyGroup and the first ItemGroup.
    2. Change OpenAccessNuGet.targets to set proper default value for UseXmlMapping
      1.<UseXmlMapping Condition="'$(UseXmlMapping)'==''">true</UseXmlMapping>
    While the second approach may seem easier to implement, bear in mind that the next time you update your NuGet targets file it will be replaces and you will have to redo the fix.

    If you need any further assistance updating your project, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  4. Mathieu
    Mathieu avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2014

    Posted 07 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    I can only second Brian thoughts on this being a very bad decision, one I totally do not understand.

    The visual designer was a brilliant tool, one that surpasses the EF one, and the main reason I switched from EF to Telerik DA for all my ORM related projects.

    Now you are basically hanging he database first adepts like me out to dry.

    Please tell me the alternative now to generate a model from an existing database ?

    Thanks

  5. Kevin
    Kevin avatar
    5 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2014

    Posted 09 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    For the past several years, and three companies, I have pushed for Telerik Products. I always loved working with your WPF components and WinForms components. To be honest though, the past few years I switched over to Asp.Net MVC and your ORM. Your Kendo stuff is ok, I have found better alternatives that are free. But coupled with your ORM designer and Kendo, it was a combination that no other company could even compete with. You destroyed that relationship now with this new release, I will not be renewing. I feel EF is now my goto, which I write with disgust.  I seriously just created and a massive dashboard system for my company, and used your product for everything. Now, what your telling me is that I am beat and my RLINQ files are future screwed and I should have went with someone else to begin with. Or, I can sacrifice security and use an old and outdated version for everything. Are you guys taking tips straight from Microsoft now on screwing over your customers? I just renewed for another year too, could have saved the $700.
  6. Rick Hubka
    Rick Hubka avatar
    42 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 09 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    OMG.
    This sucks!
    You could have given us a warning or at least left it AS IS.
    I'm switching to DevArt for my DB stuff now.

     

  7. James
    James avatar
    26 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2009

    Posted 09 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    You just made a tough decision easy. Should i renew in the next 4 days?

    After reading this thread the answer is no.

    i have been using Telerik products since the beggining.

  8. Joshua Kent
    Joshua Kent avatar
    15 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2009

    Posted 11 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    I have to second everyone above. The design first of Data Access is all we use. The vast majority of developers I personally know that use this tool also use design first. this is going to force our team to look at switching to entity framework. It's sad because I have preached for a long time about how better your tool is compared to entity framework but without the integration it falls way down on my list. I will likely be canceling my subscription too now that I don't use any of your control frameworks as we have moved to mvc. The support for ORM and occasional use of reporting is the only reason I have kept my devcraft license active.

     

    its sad to see such a great product get handicapped like this.

  9. Vincent
    Vincent avatar
    53 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2013

    Posted 12 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    what is the benefit of the new version for us? the Tools of visual designer is very helpful. I create or modify the table in my database. the tools can create the domain model and domain services by just a few click. Now the new version no longer support it.  And I will kept the old version and find some other succedaneum of the data access.....
  10. Michael
    Michael avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2011

    Posted 14 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    People actually use and depend on this stuff you know. 

    So very disappointed. Full of hope and promise, I made the dangerous switch from EF to DataAccess about a year ago. Plenty of development and testing went into it thinking I would have a superior product in the end. Now I'm facing the reverse project and the humiliating task of trying to explain why.

    This move really does not show much in the way of commitment. 

    Short term this gives me another issue, I just got a new laptop and let my DevCraft license lapse. I just realized I need to find 2015.1.225.1 to have the Visual Designer in VS. Only 2015.2 is available from my account page. How do I go about getting 2015.1 release? At this point I don't know if I want or need to renew my license.

  11. Josef Rogovsky
    Josef Rogovsky avatar
    147 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2012

    Posted 14 Jul 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Dropping the visual designers was a terrible idea.

    Dropping the visual designers without providing a solid tool for DB First development was even worse.

    What's the value proposition of DA vs EF now?

  12. deepBlue
    deepBlue avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2015

    Posted 15 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    This is scandal and unacceptable case. You should update all demos and tutorials to Q2 2015 version. And publish DataAccess Q1 2015 version full installer. How can we download the full installer Q1 2015?

  13. Brian
    Brian avatar
    40 posts
    Member since:
    Oct 2008

    Posted 15 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    Whatever manager (probably a Progress one) made this decision needs to be FIRED.  Two reasons:

    1. Developers need to rely on functionality they pay for and stake their reputation on when working with clients.
    2. You don't just remove something like this with no announcement, chance for feedback, etc.  I wasted a day figuring out what the heck was wrong!

    If this does not come back, I think the questions above make a lot of sense.  Why would DA be better than entity framework?

  14. Rick Hubka
    Rick Hubka avatar
    42 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 15 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    wasted a day figuring out what the heck was wrong

    I did too!

    No notice.  No announcement. Just depreciate a Great Tool quietly and nobody will notice.

    My 2 managers have the opinion that we should not use 3rd party ad-ons because they could disappear.  It took me a long time to convince them that Telerik was different.  They caved in.  I can not tell them this happened because they will say "I told you so" and NO you cannot renew your subscription.  I now have many days of work to secretly move my DB access code to DevArt.

    It took 9 years for Telerik to piss me off and they did it in a way that so so disrespectful and bizarre that I am in shock!

     

  15. deepBlue
    deepBlue avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2015

    Posted 18 Jul 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Viktor Zhivkov said: We will continue to deliver Q1 2015 package to existing clients when they request it (or you can actually download it from Your Account page in our site) and we will be offering help and guidance through either our support system or the community forums.

     Where the hell is the Q1 installation??? I can not download it. Your FTP connection is rubbish, can not list files...Also there is no link in our account page. Please do not restrict us any more and share the Q1 link

  16. Michael
    Michael avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2011

    Posted 21 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    Can we get a link to the 2015.1 DataAccess installation files please, please, please.

  17. DuelingCats
    DuelingCats avatar
    54 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 23 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    I am in the same boat with being very suprised that the designer has been ditched. We used it very much for our project.
  18. Michael
    Michael avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2011

    Posted 23 Jul 2015 in reply to DuelingCats Link to this post

    got an answer here

    http://www.telerik.com/forums/full-msi-package#D1-0iFFMQUWZ36XWzpuNfQ

  19. Ben
    Ben avatar
    1 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2015

    Posted 27 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    As I have trolled the forums for a couple of years, I have never been motivated to make a post.  So, this topic has frustrated me enough to make a post and here it is.... "PTOOEY!" Please, direct this post to the appropriate party who made the decision to axe the designer. You can follow it with a swift punch to the throat if you like.
  20. Jon
    Jon avatar
    27 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2012

    Posted 27 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    I too find this change very disappointing. I do all my database development via SSMS, ​not via code. I went to all the work of converting my projects from EF to ​DA because DA was more intuitive and I was already using other Telerik tools. Now I'll probably convert them back to EF. Overall I have been very pleased with Telerik's tools and first-rate support, but I agree with others that this was a mistake. A change like this should have been put out to the users for feedback prior to the final decision, rather than just dropped on us with "our way is better, but you can still use the old version if you want to."
  21. Jon
    Jon avatar
    27 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2012

    Posted 27 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    And no VS 2015 support for the designer tools either? Definitely going to have to go back to EF. Sad day. :(
  22. DuelingCats
    DuelingCats avatar
    54 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 27 Jul 2015 in reply to Jon Link to this post

    They wont even port the designer tools to VS 2015. I suspect it would be a trival thing to do, but yeah, no tools for 2015 is pretty sad. 
  23. Fawad
    Fawad avatar
    38 posts
    Member since:
    May 2009

    Posted 28 Jul 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Why the
    Viktor Zhivkov said:Hello Brian,

    Thank you for your honest feedback about our recent move to stop development of Telerik Data Access integration with Visual Studio.
    I understand your frustration. The fact that we are no longer shipping our Visual Designer does not mean that you are forced to stop using Q1 2015 (or any earlier) version of Telerik Data Access that contains all the tools that you are used to.
    We will continue to deliver Q1 2015 package to existing clients when they request it (or you can actually download it from Your Account page in our site) and we will be offering help and guidance through either our support system or the community forums.
    Moving away from Visual Studio integration will allow us to focus our attention to the runtime of the product and some other projects and we believe these are the right things to invest our time and effort into.
    In general you have two options:
    • continue using Q1 2015 version with RLINQ models without any additional effort
    • migrate to code-only mapping and NuGet packages
    Our recommendation for projects that are pass their active development phase is to use the first option, while projects that are just starting or in active development should be migrated to code-only mapping. 
    Of course you are the one that should make the choice according to your specific situation.

    Getting back to your problem at hand - OpenAccessNuGet.targets is optimized to work with Fluent models by default. You need to enable enhancing of RLINQ models there before you can use it. You have to set UseXmlMapping build variable to true. You have two options to do that:
    1. Add <UseXmlMapping>true</UseXmlMapping> to your model project file like this: 
      1.<!-- Enable enhancing of RLINQ models when using NuGet packages -->
      2.<PropertyGroup>
      3.    <UseXmlMapping>true</UseXmlMapping>
      4.</PropertyGroup>
      Please add the code snippet above after between the last configuration-related PropertyGroup and the first ItemGroup.
    2. Change OpenAccessNuGet.targets to set proper default value for UseXmlMapping
      1.<UseXmlMapping Condition="'$(UseXmlMapping)'==''">true</UseXmlMapping>
    While the second approach may seem easier to implement, bear in mind that the next time you update your NuGet targets file it will be replaces and you will have to redo the fix.

    If you need any further assistance updating your project, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.

     

     

    Now if I have updated my database, I had a nice clean way of  "update from Database" and generate .rlinq files, how to do it without visual designer, please can you tell?

  24. Emanuele
    Emanuele avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2009

    Posted 31 Jul 2015 in reply to Fawad Link to this post

    Please consider this scenario:

    1) I'm developing a data sync software to read data from existing database of another application

    2) I need to read some tables data and write/sync to destination database

    3) I can't change source and destination database schema

    4) Without visual designer my productivity is near zero

    Please release a Q1 2015 release compatible with Visual Studio 2015 !!!!

  25. Matt
    Matt avatar
    1 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2013

    Posted 31 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    I guess the balance of good will vs. development cost for this fell the wrong way for us.  This cuts both ways though as I am now looking for alternative solutions to my data access requirements.

    For me, a heavily used and perfectly serviceable tool chain has now been broken for me affecting many projects.  With this decision, I am locked to VS 2013 unless I can convince my customers that they should spend money on me changing an already working data access layer.

    If Telerik don't want to support the designer, why not open source it?  ​The community could then try getting the designer to work in VS 2015 without breaking any licence terms.

  26. Emanuele
    Emanuele avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2009

    Posted 31 Jul 2015 in reply to Matt Link to this post

    Good idea !

    Whe can download source code of Reporting or Asp.Net Ajax ... why not also release Data Access source code ? 

  27. Hinata
    Hinata avatar
    146 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2013

    Posted 06 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Removing the designer surely harmed Data Access. Even now, in VS2013, it is hard to get a good overview of the model without it, and things get really harder with VS2015. If Data Access goes to GitHub, there will be at least a chance for us to revive the designer in VS2015.

     

  28. Hinata
    Hinata avatar
    146 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2013

    Posted 06 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    -=Update=-

    Apparently the Data Access source code is requested already.

  29. Puriwat
    Puriwat avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    May 2013

    Posted 16 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    I just finished my project on VS2012 and having a time to try VS2015. I spent an hour finding how to add data access to project then I realized that it was removed.

     

    Agree with all above comments that you shouldn't take it out. I'm also paid customer for a few years because this was one of my favorite feature.

  30. Vijayguru
    Vijayguru avatar
    1 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2013

    Posted 16 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    I am a paying customer & developer at a large company with tens of thousands of developers. The removal of the Visual Designer and thus the DB-First capability is a huge blow to all developers on legacy systems.

     Unless Telerik brings back the DB-First capability quickly or open sources the tool, I can see this becoming a downward spiral for the company as a whole.

     

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