End-User Designer

53 posts, 0 answers
  1. Eddie Conner
    Eddie Conner avatar
    32 posts
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    Dec 2009

    Posted 20 Mar 2010 Link to this post

    Now that Mix10 is over is there any news or updates on a end-user designer for Reporting?
  2. Steve
    Admin
    Steve avatar
    10941 posts

    Posted 22 Mar 2010 Link to this post

    Hi Eddie Conner,

    We're not sure what the MIX conference has to do with the feature you inquire. Anyway we currently don’t have a stand-alone/end user report designer. However this is in our TODO list of features and once we start working on it, the Reporting RoadMap would be updated accordingly.
    However, your feedback will help us shape our decision when it comes to an end-user report designer, so we have the following questions:
    How do you envision the end-user report designer to function? Do you see it desktop-based (WinForms, WPF) or web-based (ASP.NET, Silverlight)? Do you need an application which will allow your users to create reports from a predefined set of database fields (similar to the current designer in Visual Studio), or do you need an analytical application which to allow your users to analyze data (KPIs, trends, cubes, etc)? What is the expected outcome that your users will need to produce?

    Sincerely yours,
    Steve
    the Telerik team

    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items.
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  4. Eddie Conner
    Eddie Conner avatar
    32 posts
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    Dec 2009

    Posted 22 Mar 2010 Link to this post

    Minimum - A winform end-user designer similar to your Visual  Studio report designer. More and more clients are wanting access to the data to be able to create their own reports. This could be similar to Cyrstal reports, ActiveReports, XtraReports, etc.

    Ideally - A end-user designer for winform, web, siliverlight. I have current applications that are web based that could benefit from a web-based report designer (silverlight or AJAX). This could be similar to http://www.stimulsoft.com/ReportsWeb.aspx ( http://www.stimulsoft.com/, siliverlight coming soon)
  5. Michael
    Michael avatar
    28 posts
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    Nov 2005

    Posted 12 May 2010 Link to this post

    Steve,

    Since you are looking for feedback, I will reinforce Eddie's comments...

    Considering that you already have Visual Studio designer support, I would imagine that the quickest time to market implementation would be a WinForms editor.  This would allow you to provide the feature in some form to start, and then you can build out the other platforms.  Being able to offer WinForms sooner, is better than waiting for the comprehensive solution of supporting web enabled platforms.

    I look forward to seeing a more definite commitment on the Roadmap.

    Mike
  6. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 18 May 2010 Link to this post

    Hello Mike, Eddie,

    Thank you for your feedback and thoughts on the features you would like to see in a Telerik End-User Report Designer. Yes, we do agree that an end-user designer based on Visual Studio is a viable solution. We do have some additional ideas, although we are still to test whether business professionals/managers will feel comfortable with the Visual Studio interface and what they will think of property grids.

    Please, feel free to share any additional ideas that come to mind.


    Kind regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team

    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items.
  7. Michael
    Michael avatar
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    Nov 2005

    Posted 18 May 2010 Link to this post

    Vassil,

    To be clear, I'm not suggesting that the VS designer is suitable for business professionals/managers.  My comments were not related to the design of the editor; I was responding to the relative importance of supporting editors on multiple platforms.  Some additional comments that you need to focus on with respect to the design include:

    1) Separation of report layout from compiled resources
    2) Ability to design against an XML schema
    3) Ability to reference image resources that are not compiled into the binary
    4) Ability to programmatically pass all of these inputs (and data adhering to the schema) into the reporting engine to produce a report output for a specified format.

    Ideally, the business professional should be able to design a report based off of an XML schema that is provided by the developer.  In turn, the business professional should be able to update their layouts whenever they like (as long as they adhere to a specified schema).  Rather than having to recompile any layout changes, the layout should be a template that can be readily deployed by copy this template to the installation.

    Mike
  8. Eddie Conner
    Eddie Conner avatar
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    Member since:
    Dec 2009

    Posted 19 May 2010 Link to this post

    I agree.

    I also have the DevExpress XtraReports product .It does have an end user designer but also has the ability to attach to data and save the report to an external template file or to a database. The end user can design their report and use it outside of Visual Studio.
  9. Michael
    Michael avatar
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    Nov 2005

    Posted 19 May 2010 Link to this post

    Yes, I concur that the design and deployment features are more advanced on DevExpress reporting, but I do like the features of the Telerik Report Viewer.  Telerik has been a leader in ASP.NET and now SL controls, but they had better devote some attention to their Reporting design and deployment capabilities or they are going to lose this market.  Although they finally posted something for 2010-Q2, I don't see any features addressing these concerns, and there is no longer term plan showing a vision that even competes with the DevExpress design experience.

    I am currently facing a decision of possibly switching vendors, so a little better visibility into the future of this product would be helpful :-)
  10. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 21 May 2010 Link to this post

    Hello guys,

    Again, thanks for the feedback.

    As you know, we are very open when it comes to our plans, and we try to be transparent and not hold back anything. We simply do not have a time frame for an end-user designer, so we cannot promise anything. This feature is still with lower priority as of this time, because there are a few things we need to finish/provide in order to have the ability to offer an end-user report designer. For example, Michael proposes to offer the Ability to design against an XML schema - we need to provide a way to save our reports in XML first, and only then we can provide an end-user report designer. This task is in the works and the ability to save report definitions will be available later this year.


    Best wishes,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team

    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items.
  11. Scott R
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    Jun 2008

    Posted 24 May 2010 Link to this post

    Unfortunately, this has been on the Telerik "TODO List" since 2007. Hopefully it will move to the "We're working on it now" list soon.

    For my part, I need a web-based designer for very simple reports. Actually, a "visual style builder" for existing reports would be a big step in the right direction. Having a pre-defined list of fields would be fine, but I do need to support master-detail as well as custom filters, sorting, etc.

    Maybe you guys could start with something rather basic then grow it based on user feedback? At this point, I think that *something* is better than nothing.
  12. Eddie Conner
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    32 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2009

    Posted 24 May 2010 Link to this post

    I have to agree Scott.

    First of all, I like the Telerik Reporting tool but I cannot even use it yet due to my clients are wanting/requiring an end user designer. I cannot spend the time to build the reports and them hope on the end user designer to come down the road. I instead have had to abandon the Telerik reporting product at this time and use a competitor's product to be able to meet the needs of my different clients.

    Again, I do like the Telerik Reporting product and features. However, in my opinion, it is not complete enough to compete with the other reporting products in the market
  13. Eddie Conner
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    Dec 2009

    Posted 13 Jul 2010 Link to this post

    I just wanted to follow up and see if there is any news or progress on an end user designer yet.

    Thanks.
  14. Steve
    Admin
    Steve avatar
    10941 posts

    Posted 15 Jul 2010 Link to this post

    Hello Eddie,

    I think the last two posts from my colleague Vassil cover the end user designer topic quite thoroughly. To repeat: it is on the road, but we have to implement some other features first, which would be needed.
    Vassil even elaborated on one of them and you will see others in the upcoming RoadMap soon. Once these are done, we would be able to engage with a time-frame for the end user designer feature.

    All the best,
    Steve
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Trackig system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  15. Jason Lee
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    Member since:
    Oct 2004

    Posted 20 Oct 2010 Link to this post

    Any news about end-user designer now??
  16. Steve
    Admin
    Steve avatar
    10941 posts

    Posted 20 Oct 2010 Link to this post

    Hello Jason,

    We have no new news other than what has already been said. We will nevertheless update this thread and the Reporting RoadMap as soon as we have more information on the topic.

    Thank you for the patience and understanding everybody.

    Greetings,
    Steve
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  17. MarkMasson
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    Dec 2006

    Posted 24 Nov 2010 Link to this post

    Hey Guys,

    Hope you see this post ....

    If you are unable to continue waiting for an end-user designer, check out <admin>product name removed for advertising</admin>.  They have a very customizable end-user designer as part of their reporting tool.  It also supports the 2005 spec of MS SQL Reporting Services RDL for compatibility.

    We've been a long-time customer of Telerik but we finally got to the point where we just couldn't wait any longer. (Since 2006).

    Mark Masson
    Director of Technology
    Lucid Data Corporation
  18. Marjorie
    Marjorie avatar
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    Member since:
    Sep 2010

    Posted 11 Dec 2010 Link to this post

    Sure wish Telerik <admin> didn't hide the name of the other product. We need a web-based solution and if you don't have it, why not allow him to refer us to another vendor who does? We have the full suite from Telerik and without end-user support we are dumping the Telerik Reporting for a solution that does. If and when Telerik has a web-based solution, we shall be back.

    BTW, focus on web-based only for your first release. Why? because all other technologies have the ability to host a web page (aka IFrame). Our applications are in multiple platforms, languages, and device types (Droid, iOS, Linux, Win, etc.) so if you had an HTML5 solution, all of our applications could just IFrame the report HTML server.


    Happy Holidays!

    Scott Peal
    Global Chief Architect
    Company Automation LLC
  19. Rayne
    Rayne avatar
    241 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2010

    Posted 29 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I too am hoping for an end-user designer soon.

    I'm hoping to see something simple for the end user. Most of my users do not have the time and/or patience for anything too complex (such as the report designer in VS). They just need to be able to pick which fields (from a provided list of related entities) they want on the report. Then give the report a title, some basic design structure (maybe from a list of provided templates) and focus on the complex grouping, sorting and filtering (but from a user-friendly interface). Charts and cross-tabs would also be helpful.

    Right now, users are getting data from a grid in the application, then exporting that to Excel for manipulation. If they could do this within the application, then save out the resulting report, it would save them a lot of time.
  20. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 01 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Well, Rayne, we couldn't have summarized this better. Your description of an end-user designer matched ours exactly, and this is what we will try to provide. An end-user designer based on Visual Studio simply will not cut it today. UIs and UX have improved immensely in the last few years, and we plan to take advantage of the new advances.

    When will this happen? I cannot say just yet as we are still on the drawing board.


    Kind regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  21. Rayne
    Rayne avatar
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    Sep 2010

    Posted 01 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Excellent!! At least I know that when the time comes, it will be exactly what I'm looking for. That's good news.
  22. MarkMasson
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    4 posts
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    Dec 2006

    Posted 01 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Rayne,
    I wouldn't get too excited.  This has been on the "drawing board" for years. We've been waiting since 2006.

    Mark Masson
    Director of Technology
    Lucid Data Corporation
  23. Alexandre Jobin
    Alexandre Jobin avatar
    125 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2010

    Posted 05 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    We are evaluating some reporting tools and for now, we really like the one from Telerik. But a major feature is missing and its the End-User Designer. Without this feature, we can't go with your product and we don't have much time to decide.

    Is it possible, at least, to give us some news about when you could release a first draft of this feature. Every major reporting tools already have it and they are well done. I have also checked the roadmap for your reporting tool and it only say "coming soon"!

    i understand that you have other priorities too but we would like to know if this feature is on a high priority or not.

    thank you!

    alex
  24. tdemeza
    tdemeza avatar
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    Apr 2007

    Posted 07 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    I have been waiting for years for this to happen as well.  And truly getting really frustrated.

    Ideally, we need an end user report designer to (at a minimum) be very data friendly and flexible like crystal.  The way I can user a stored procedure and link it to a table, then link to some external data source in crystal is amazing.  That piece alone is what is missing in every other report deigner I have tried.  Sure, keep it simple, but just as important keep it flexible.

    In our business, we have people that design, create and maintain reports externally to the compiled application.  So a report format that we can keep portable (including all data sources) would be awesome.  If a client needs a new invoice format, we need to be able to update it on the fly and drop that new XML file or whatever in place without hacing to recompile the app. 

    I hope you guys are really listening, you have an opportunity that I think you are letting slip away.  If anyone knows of a reporting tool that properly handles stored procedures and allows random linking as Crystal does, please send me an email.  We are desperate to even find an interim solution.  My requirement, it MUST be dot net.  Crystal is fine but they too are getting too splintered and are now only focusing on dashboards, etc. 

    Thanks!
    Tim
    tdemeza [@] natrisk dot com
     

  25. Stefen
    Stefen avatar
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    Oct 2010

    Posted 08 Jun 2011 Link to this post

    The telerik product roadmap as of the time of this post contains no useful information, so its kind of pointless for telerik employees to keep pointing to that link like its going to answer all of our questions. Is there any updates on the status of this feature/product request ? It looks like there are alot of folks who would like this but it seems to just get the backburner. This forum post is over a year old and still actively posted to... I think that is a strong indicator that your customers are reaching out to you with an opportunity to remove any doubt that telerik is a "Complete" reporting solution. 
  26. Ivo
    Ivo avatar
    37 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2011

    Posted 07 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Any news about this feature, yet? I have to agree with all people who posted their comments here. Telerik components really make our lives easier, but this feature is crucial to sell products using reports. Thus, I really wonder why it takes such along time to develop something like that.

    Again, I really enjoy working with Telerik components, but maybe there is a different understanding of "it is on our roadmap" means. If something cannot be integrated into the product line for more than 3 years you should make this clear to your customers. Having still no release date for this feature I have to assume that we will not get it within 1 year timeframe or am I wrong?
  27. Steve
    Admin
    Steve avatar
    10941 posts

    Posted 08 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Hi Stefan,

    Since this feature is highly demanded, we hope to be able to deliver an ad-hoc report builder soon and it may (or not) be part of Telerik Reporting. We will have more clarity on this in a month or so. Note that we will not release this tool with Q3 2011, but early next year.

    All the best,
    Steve
    the Telerik team

    Q2’11 SP1 of Telerik Reporting is available for download (see what's new). Get it today.

  28. tdemeza
    tdemeza avatar
    8 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2007

    Posted 08 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Dear Telerik,
    I appreciate the fact that you have finally decided that this is a highly requested feature and will begin to implement.  However, I have a serious problem with the fact that you are choosing Silverlight.  As much as I see that silverlight is an absolutely incredible technology, every indicator is that MS is moving away from this to support HTML5.  Why?  Who knows...  More importantly, please do not leave those of us whom need this functionality in a winforms enviornment out in the cold.  Most end user report designers are created so the designer (Not the developer) that knows the data can create reports for a client which can then be easily deployed to any viewer.  I think you really should consider a poll for what everyone wants. 

    I will reiterate my needs:
    1.  A stand alone report creation tool that allows easy access to many different data sources, very similar to the way it is done in crystal.  I can link a Stored Procedure to a SQL Table, and then link to an excel spreadsheet if needed.  All of this is done in a very simple UI and does not require a developer skills.  Again, buy a copy of crystal and look at this feature.  It's awesome.   
    2. Simple filters, groupings and parameters that the "designer" can define alone with the intended layout.
    3. Simple integration of sub reports that are easily linked to the main report. 
    4. A way to save the report definition to a file.  This report definition should contain everything needed to execute the report except for the parameters.  Which the intended end user should be able easily enter and execute.
    5. What ever executes the reports and displays them to the end user should be able to load these pre defined reports on the fly so that they can be updated without having to recompile the application. 

    6. Then once the above is done, now you can work on allowing a real end user to do minimal modifications in real time to a report that was designed by the report designer.  In fact, the report designer should be able to choose, what the ultimate end user can change, edit or modify on the report.  Such as filters, groupings, colors, etc.  

    I hope other chime in and give specifics because I really don't want to wait on another component that completely misses the mark.  This is very important to me and my company.  Properly implemented, this could be one of the best tools you guys could produce.  Right now, it is fine, but in most organizations the reporting folks are not developers, they are data gurus. Therefore, making them use developer tools to create reports is not efficient in my opinion.

    Thank you for listening.
  29. tdemeza
    tdemeza avatar
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    Member since:
    Apr 2007

    Posted 08 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Sorry, this was a duplicate post because I received a server error when I submitted the first response.
  30. TonyG
    TonyG avatar
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    Feb 2006

    Posted 08 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Just adding a +1 here.  My clients have been asking for an ad-hoc reporting tool for years.  We got a RadControls Premium Collection with Reporting, in part because we were considering Reporting itself as an option for users to create reports with predefined datasets.  But for various reasons that didn't happen.  Now our license is about to expire and we're re-evaluating the decision to go Premium, especially since there was a hint here that an end-user designer might be a separate product.

    As to <admin> removing the name of another product, sure we all understand how any company feels about such a thing. However, I'd maintain that if Telerik isn't selling something then another product can't be competition.  If Telerik doesn't have an offering in a specific space then please don't worry about people purchasing other products that suit our needs.  We still love RadControls and will continue to use that product for the features it includes.  But for the features it does not include, we don't have much choice but to look elsewhere, and making that process difficult is just downright unfriendly.

    As to features, I would create a rich BAL, the tables and fields for which would be exposed in the designer.  If we pre-built the designer for specific users then this could be early bound, I wouldn't mind that.  But for a generic designer the BAL could be dynamic and reflection (or XML) could be used to identify the tables and fields.  A configuration setting is required to expose a configuration string or other parameters so that each site could point to their local datasource.  Through the BAL we would then apply this to the DAL to access the source.

    As described here, anyone could really create this end-user offering.  Though I think the consensus here is that the tools already exist, just built-in to the VS container.  No one wants to re-invent those wheels, and we trust Telerik can do this... one of these years....

    BTW, I got a server error when posting this too, but I always ctrl-C before posting anything just in case, and a simple refresh of the page showed the post. Thanks for the warning, tdemeza!
  31. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 11 Nov 2011 Link to this post

    Hi guys,

    Thank you for sharing your needs once again. Your descriptions overlap with our idea for an ad-hoc report designer, which obviously has to go a little further than the "traditional" ad-hoc reporting where IT is heavily involved in the process. We will try to simplify things a bit, and make the maintenance of the reporting system easier for all involved parties.

    As to using Silverlight, it was a tough choice. We chose it because of our expertise in the platform, although we've hit a few snags. I am nevertheless sure that our devs will find a way around these shortcomings.

    In this regard, if you are to chose a platform right now, what would be your choice? Related to this: do you guys need a client/server solution, or do you prefer a more client-centric solution?
     

    Regards,
    Vassil Petev
    the Telerik team

    Q2’11 SP1 of Telerik Reporting is available for download (see what's new). Get it today.

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