Hello Community,
I was very excited but the brand new FormDecorator. But after using it I'm wondering whether it is a good solution or not.
I think that it might be a better solution to get from Telerik brand new controls (Button, CheckBoxes...) rather than decorating existing ones.
I had a look to the currently generated code and I think that it generates too many things, probably to maintain compatibilty with existing code.
In my tests, it leads to some layout rendering errors because orginal input elements (for buttons) are rendered with opacity property set to 0.
I would prefer to have brand new controls like buttons or checkboxes and place them into existing forms. Maybe it would be more work for me but at least it would avoid Telerik to forced to support legacy code (code that expect an input element and not a RadButton control).
What is your opinion? Am I the only one?
BR, Laurent
I was very excited but the brand new FormDecorator. But after using it I'm wondering whether it is a good solution or not.
I think that it might be a better solution to get from Telerik brand new controls (Button, CheckBoxes...) rather than decorating existing ones.
I had a look to the currently generated code and I think that it generates too many things, probably to maintain compatibilty with existing code.
In my tests, it leads to some layout rendering errors because orginal input elements (for buttons) are rendered with opacity property set to 0.
I would prefer to have brand new controls like buttons or checkboxes and place them into existing forms. Maybe it would be more work for me but at least it would avoid Telerik to forced to support legacy code (code that expect an input element and not a RadButton control).
What is your opinion? Am I the only one?
BR, Laurent
15 Answers, 1 is accepted
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Rory
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answered on 19 May 2008, 07:07 PM
Yes I agree.
I would feel better about adding a <telerik:button> or <telerik:checkbox> rather than something that iterates thru the page looking for what controls it should replace. This would also fix issues where we don't want to replace all controls on the page. The decorator might be more convenient for developers but sounds like more overhead for applications.
I would feel better about adding a <telerik:button> or <telerik:checkbox> rather than something that iterates thru the page looking for what controls it should replace. This would also fix issues where we don't want to replace all controls on the page. The decorator might be more convenient for developers but sounds like more overhead for applications.
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 20 May 2008, 08:40 AM
I've long held that there should be a teleik control for the other inputs but it's never got much support.
One of the things I've been hoping for is a tri-state checkbox.
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Stuart
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lchesnais
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answered on 20 May 2008, 01:43 PM
Thanks guys!
I'm happy to read that others share the same feeling. I felt lonely for a while.
I also support Stuart proposition for a three-state checkbox.
Moreover, I'd love Drop-down, Split and Toggle buttons that may be found in RadControl for WinForms.
BR, Laurent
I'm happy to read that others share the same feeling. I felt lonely for a while.
I also support Stuart proposition for a three-state checkbox.
Moreover, I'd love Drop-down, Split and Toggle buttons that may be found in RadControl for WinForms.
BR, Laurent
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Rory
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answered on 20 May 2008, 03:45 PM
Will the FormDecorator someday do toggle buttons and 3 state? I wish it could. I'm actually planning on updating most of our UI to go along with the our website's "Prometheus" Upgrade and I'm stuck between the FormDecorator and plain old asp:imagebuttons because the ability to do Toggle & TriState is just so much cooler.
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 20 May 2008, 03:54 PM
My opinion, FWIW, would be to go the imagebutton route. The guys at telerik towers have invested a bit of time in FormDecorator and I'd be surprised if they were to give that up.
A tri-state checkbox is not a natural web control; only a windows one, so I can't see how FormDecorator could ever do it.
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Stuart
A tri-state checkbox is not a natural web control; only a windows one, so I can't see how FormDecorator could ever do it.
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Stuart
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Hi lchesnais,
We are working on the implementation on a 3-state button (normal, hovered and pressed) and we are planning to have the work done for the next release.
The request for a toggle button is an interesting one, and probably we will consider creating it.
Regards,
Martin Ivanov
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We are working on the implementation on a 3-state button (normal, hovered and pressed) and we are planning to have the work done for the next release.
The request for a toggle button is an interesting one, and probably we will consider creating it.
Regards,
Martin Ivanov
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 21 May 2008, 10:53 AM
Martin,
That is very cool news. However, I'm confused about the 3rd state for the checkbox. Often the 3 states are referred to as "On", "Off" and "Don't Care" (or "Don't Know").
I'm unsure how "hovered" offers a real offers a real 3rd state.
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Stuart
That is very cool news. However, I'm confused about the 3rd state for the checkbox. Often the 3 states are referred to as "On", "Off" and "Don't Care" (or "Don't Know").
I'm unsure how "hovered" offers a real offers a real 3rd state.
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Stuart
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Hello Stuart Hemming,
Thank you for your reply. Could you, please, give us a brief explanation or guidelines of the third state of the button so we are able to think of ways of achieving it with RadFormDecorator?
Thanks,
Martin Ivanov
the Telerik team
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Thank you for your reply. Could you, please, give us a brief explanation or guidelines of the third state of the button so we are able to think of ways of achieving it with RadFormDecorator?
Thanks,
Martin Ivanov
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 22 May 2008, 08:42 AM
Martin,
Just Stuart is fine.
Could you, please, give us a brief explanation or guidelines of the third state of the button so we are able to think of ways of achieving it with RadFormDecorator?
I can give a couple of example of uses of a tri-state checkbox (from windows apps) that describe how it might be used, will that help?
Example 1:
Consider a configuration options screen. In version 1 of the application we have just a couple of boolean options. In version 2 we have a third option, essentially boolean in nature, but we don't want to force the application to one state or the other, we want to force the user to make a choice. We set this option to the 3rd (don't know) state. We can test for the 3rd state when firing up and react accordingly.
In this example, the ability to test for the 3rd state is important. I don't believe you could do that properly if the 3rd state were simply 'hovered'; that test you can do anyway (ok, in a roundabout way).
Example 2 :
Your application has a number of options, some of which are interrelated. Let's pretend that option one is controlled by a combobox, a number of the selections in this combobox require the user set a 2nd option, based on a boolean input. We may (or may not) want to default this boolean according to the value of the first option. In any event, some of the values in the first option do not require any 2nd option value. In these cases we'd set the 2nd option to the 3rd (don't care) state.
In this example, the 3rd state acts as a visual indicator to the user that the value is unimportant.
Now, it's true that both of these examples could be achieved in other ways, but the point here is to show how the don't know/don't care value of a tri-state boolean input would be used.
I hope that this helps.
I do think that, unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree with FormDecorator as this can only offer a new way of displaying the control itself; it can't offer any real change in functionality.
Of course, this is just my opinion.
--
Stuart
Just Stuart is fine.
Could you, please, give us a brief explanation or guidelines of the third state of the button so we are able to think of ways of achieving it with RadFormDecorator?
I can give a couple of example of uses of a tri-state checkbox (from windows apps) that describe how it might be used, will that help?
Example 1:
Consider a configuration options screen. In version 1 of the application we have just a couple of boolean options. In version 2 we have a third option, essentially boolean in nature, but we don't want to force the application to one state or the other, we want to force the user to make a choice. We set this option to the 3rd (don't know) state. We can test for the 3rd state when firing up and react accordingly.
In this example, the ability to test for the 3rd state is important. I don't believe you could do that properly if the 3rd state were simply 'hovered'; that test you can do anyway (ok, in a roundabout way).
Example 2 :
Your application has a number of options, some of which are interrelated. Let's pretend that option one is controlled by a combobox, a number of the selections in this combobox require the user set a 2nd option, based on a boolean input. We may (or may not) want to default this boolean according to the value of the first option. In any event, some of the values in the first option do not require any 2nd option value. In these cases we'd set the 2nd option to the 3rd (don't care) state.
In this example, the 3rd state acts as a visual indicator to the user that the value is unimportant.
Now, it's true that both of these examples could be achieved in other ways, but the point here is to show how the don't know/don't care value of a tri-state boolean input would be used.
I hope that this helps.
I do think that, unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree with FormDecorator as this can only offer a new way of displaying the control itself; it can't offer any real change in functionality.
Of course, this is just my opinion.
--
Stuart
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Hello Stuart,
Thank you for the detailed description I asked you about. We will put it into a serious consideration and will come up with a statement if this could be done.
Have a great week!
Regards,
Martin Ivanov
the Telerik team
Instantly find answers to your questions at the new Telerik Support Center
Thank you for the detailed description I asked you about. We will put it into a serious consideration and will come up with a statement if this could be done.
Have a great week!
Regards,
Martin Ivanov
the Telerik team
Instantly find answers to your questions at the new Telerik Support Center
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Hi Stuart,
I would like to share my comments on the future of the RadFormDecorator control.
In your previous answer you wrote:
"I do think that, unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree with FormDecorator as this can only offer a new way of displaying the control itself;"
Indeed, this is exactly what the RadFormDecorator is about - it has been implemented like this on purpose - as an easy, unobtrusive way of "skinning" buttons, checkboxes, radiobuttons (and more to come soon) existing on the page. Thus, this is aimed to be a tool for developers to further enhance their existing applications and bring them closer to a true, fully-customized look of (say) a desktop application.
At present we have a TODO list of about 10 features that we need to wrap up before the control as such is fully complete - the most important of which being eliminating the intial short flickering when the page loads - when the "browser" controls are replaced with the "decorated" controls. This is a significant challenge by itself, given the fact that the decorator works on the client, and it can potentially update only a portion of the screen, needs to keep track of AJAX requests as well as of elements that were originally not visible. Still, we are getting somewhere and we are pretty sure we will be able to work around that.
Then, once the core feature set is complete you will have a control that seamlessly skins your existing page in a smooth, easy-to-do manner.
The next step then will be to add new server-side controls for additional flexibility - such as a three-state button, image button, as well as server-side versions of the [current] client-side implementations (e.g. telerik:CheckBox, telerik:TextBox). Thus, these are two different areas and we plan to cover both.
I hope this information helps,
Tervel
the Telerik team
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I would like to share my comments on the future of the RadFormDecorator control.
In your previous answer you wrote:
"I do think that, unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree with FormDecorator as this can only offer a new way of displaying the control itself;"
Indeed, this is exactly what the RadFormDecorator is about - it has been implemented like this on purpose - as an easy, unobtrusive way of "skinning" buttons, checkboxes, radiobuttons (and more to come soon) existing on the page. Thus, this is aimed to be a tool for developers to further enhance their existing applications and bring them closer to a true, fully-customized look of (say) a desktop application.
At present we have a TODO list of about 10 features that we need to wrap up before the control as such is fully complete - the most important of which being eliminating the intial short flickering when the page loads - when the "browser" controls are replaced with the "decorated" controls. This is a significant challenge by itself, given the fact that the decorator works on the client, and it can potentially update only a portion of the screen, needs to keep track of AJAX requests as well as of elements that were originally not visible. Still, we are getting somewhere and we are pretty sure we will be able to work around that.
Then, once the core feature set is complete you will have a control that seamlessly skins your existing page in a smooth, easy-to-do manner.
The next step then will be to add new server-side controls for additional flexibility - such as a three-state button, image button, as well as server-side versions of the [current] client-side implementations (e.g. telerik:CheckBox, telerik:TextBox). Thus, these are two different areas and we plan to cover both.
I hope this information helps,
Tervel
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 27 May 2008, 12:41 PM
Terval,
Thanks for the reply.
Indeed, this is exactly what the RadFormDecorator is about - it has been implemented like this on purpose - as an easy, unobtrusive way of "skinning" buttons, checkboxes, radiobuttons (and more to come soon) existing on the page.
Absolutely, which is why I was surprised by Martin's suggestion, earlier in the thread, that there was in progress an attempt to create a tri-state boolean using FormDecorator.
I'm intrigued by what "more to come soon" could be alluding to.
The next step then will be to add new server-side controls for additional flexibility - such as a three-state button, image button, as well as server-side versions of the [current] client-side implementations (e.g. telerik:CheckBox, telerik:TextBox). Thus, these are two different areas and we plan to cover both.
Now that is good news.
--
Stuart
Thanks for the reply.
Indeed, this is exactly what the RadFormDecorator is about - it has been implemented like this on purpose - as an easy, unobtrusive way of "skinning" buttons, checkboxes, radiobuttons (and more to come soon) existing on the page.
Absolutely, which is why I was surprised by Martin's suggestion, earlier in the thread, that there was in progress an attempt to create a tri-state boolean using FormDecorator.
I'm intrigued by what "more to come soon" could be alluding to.
The next step then will be to add new server-side controls for additional flexibility - such as a three-state button, image button, as well as server-side versions of the [current] client-side implementations (e.g. telerik:CheckBox, telerik:TextBox). Thus, these are two different areas and we plan to cover both.
Now that is good news.
--
Stuart
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Stuart Hemming
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answered on 27 May 2008, 12:55 PM
s/Terval/Tervel/
Apologies.
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Stuart
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Rory
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answered on 01 Jul 2008, 12:07 AM
Hi there,
Any news on whether the OnLoad Flickering of Decorated controls has been fixed?
Any news on whether the OnLoad Flickering of Decorated controls has been fixed?
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Hello Rory,
Yes, it's been fixed in the latest update of the form decorator control, however this introduced several new problems.
More information on the subject is available in the Reported Q1 SP2 (build 2008.1.619) problems and their solutions
topic which is pinned at the top of this forum.
All the problems that were reported and are described in the above-mentioned topic are fixed in our internal build and the next official release - "Futures" will be available for download next week.
Kind regards,
Georgi Tunev
the Telerik team
Instantly find answers to your questions at the new Telerik Support Center
Yes, it's been fixed in the latest update of the form decorator control, however this introduced several new problems.
More information on the subject is available in the Reported Q1 SP2 (build 2008.1.619) problems and their solutions
topic which is pinned at the top of this forum.
All the problems that were reported and are described in the above-mentioned topic are fixed in our internal build and the next official release - "Futures" will be available for download next week.
Kind regards,
Georgi Tunev
the Telerik team
Instantly find answers to your questions at the new Telerik Support Center