Why should I continue using Data Access?

10 posts, 0 answers
  1. Greg Figueroa
    Greg Figueroa avatar
    82 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2005

    Posted 09 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Since you guys have decided to chop off a lot of your customers at the knees, by...

    1.  Removing the Visual Designer
    2.  Provide no way to generate a fluent model from an existing database (in 624.2015).
    3.  Provide no Wizard to convert a Domain Model to a Fluent Model
    4.  Took away code generation templates to generate DTO's and hobbled our use of Data Access with WCF

    Considering this, what possible explanation can you give me to stay with Telerik's Data Access over Microsoft's Entity Framework?

    If I have to do months of work, to move forward with my production application, to convert it to a code-first implementation, at least with Entity Framework, the core setup can be generated, and I can make modifications.  It's still a lot of work, but at least I am not starting from scratch!

    So, tell me... tell us... your loyal customers...  why should any of us continue?

    I should have smelled this coming when Telerik was bought by Progress.  Things like this happens every time.  We are now considering moving away from Telerik's Controls (ASP.NET, Windows, Reporting).  If you can do this to us with Data Access... how long before you do this to us with your other products?

     

    Thanks, Greg

     

  2. Viktor Zhivkov
    Admin
    Viktor Zhivkov avatar
    291 posts

    Posted 12 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Hello Greg,

    Thank you for your feedback.
    If you want to migrate your RLINQ models to code-only mapping you can follow the steps outlines in this blog post. It assumes that you still have Q1 2015 version installed on your machine in order to perform the steps.
    We agree that a tool for generation of your entity classes and FluentMapping code from and existing database will greatly simply the workflow of many developers and we are considering building such tool in the future.
    As for the key strengths of Telerik Data Access compared to Microsoft Entity Framework I would include these:
    The decision to stop supporting Visual Designer was driven by the fact that we want to invest our development power in projects that better return of investment than the free Telerik Data Access.
    This is not the end of the product, but rather a restructuring of the scope to focus on the runtime features.
    You can continue using Q1 2015 version as long as you like and in near future you will continue to enjoy 24 hour support as long as you are holder of DevCraft license that is including our product.
    Any changes coming to the paid DevCraft products will be communicated in details with the affected customers and I believe there will be substantial transition period.

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
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  4. Andreas
    Andreas avatar
    5 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2009

    Posted 12 Aug 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Hello Viktor!

    That is really too bad.​
    I never wanted that DataAccess is a free product.

    For me there's now no reasons to ​renew my subscription​. 

    The most important message fromTelerik seems to be:

    you can't trust us because maybe we will do something else tomorrow.

    Has anybody at Telerik thought about how important reliability is?

     

    Regards,

    Andreas

    maybe we will do something else tomorrow
    maybe we will do something else tomorrow
    maybe we will do something else tomorrow
  5. Greg Figueroa
    Greg Figueroa avatar
    82 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2005

    Posted 13 Aug 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Viktor,
     
    Thank you for the reply, and the benefits you listed are nice, but not an overwhelming argument, because now, your customer base doesn't know what you will do next to hobble our development.  You and the rest of the folks at Telerik seem to be missing the point.  We, as developers, are not so much questioning your decision, but we are questioning your SUPPORT of your customers, after making the decision.  Not to mention this is MORE than just getting rid of the visual designer.
     
    I need a tool, that will take my domain model, INCLUDING the naming of assocations (because the default naming is often insufficient), and generate a fluent model from it.  It doesn't have to be perfect... just SOMETHING... ANYTHING... 
     
    We also do extensive work with WCF and the T4 templates you USE TO HAVE are now gone, and there are no T4 templates for a fluent model... why not?   Now, not only am I forced to MANUALLY recreate my model, I have to create my own T4 templates because you simply took away a feature.  That's EVEN MORE work I have to do... because of your decision.
     
    I have been a DevCraft license holder for several years... since before you made Data Access a free product, so to me, you should have communicated what you were planning to do better for your customers, especially customers that have been with you for several years.  We COULD HAVE provided feedback about what we need before you made this transition... had time to create the tools to help your existing customers that have PRODUCTION deployments of your products.
     
    But instead, we're left with an almost laughable solution of "Stay on Visual Studio 2013, and keep using this one version of Data Access".  Not only can I not take advantage of new features of Visual Studio 2015, I'm stuck with any bugs discovered in this version of Data Access, and get no enhancements to the product, because we're stuck... with no real help from Telerik.
     
    Thanks, Greg

     

     
  6. Mathieu
    Mathieu avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2014

    Posted 14 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Viktor,

    thank you for your comments.

    I agree with the reply above from Greg. Customers that have production code running on Telerik Data Access models are now left in the dark and there has been no official communication from Telerik on what will happen in the future with DA.

    So my question to you: can you confirm that Telerik is going to develop a tool that will assist in automatically generating poco's and fluent models from an existing database ?

     Answering this simple question with yes or no would shed some light to a lot of your customers wondering if they can expect something to help them generating the boilerplate stuff or if they will have from now on to rely totally on handcoding their mappings or writing their own tool or templates or whatever.

    Honestly, I don't see why you couldn't provide such a tool. You have the code to do it already in the deprecated visual designer, so the least you could do for your customers is to put just one more little effort into taking that code and factoring that into a code generation tool that can be used with future versions of DA.

    Thank you.

  7. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 17 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Hello Greg and Mathieu,

    Our priority currently is to ship a build that enables compatibility between Telerik Data Access and Visual Studio 2015, .Net 4.6, Roslyn and Visual Studio 2013 Update 5.
    We are expecting that we will be able to release it as late as the end of October 2015.
    We also see the strong interest in tooling that will allow you to generate your entity types and Fluent Mapping from an existing database and if nothing with higher priority pops up we will start working on this tool.

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  8. Mathieu
    Mathieu avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2014

    Posted 17 Aug 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Dear Doroteya,

    thank you for your reply.

    Now at least we see some kind of roadmap and an estimate timeframe.

    Looking forward to these tools.

    Mathieu

  9. Max
    Max avatar
    5 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2013

    Posted 17 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    As a developer that has previously built all my applications using DataAccess and who has published extensions in the Visual Studio Extension Library for the Telerik ORM. I want to tag onto this post to say I am also extremely disappointed by the decision to axe the Visual Designer as this was a fundamental reasons why I used your product in the first place.

    I have been an avid fan and user of Teleriks products for a number of years now but as others have mentioned this decision also calls into question Telerik's judgement and future direction with regards to its other products.

     I for one have made the decision to move over to Entity Framework for my future projects until (if) this is resolve. Extremely shortsighted and uninformed decision... Just my 2 cents.

  10. CDC
    CDC avatar
    3 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2015

    Posted 21 Oct Link to this post

    Victor/Telerik,

    Has any progress been made on a tool to generate POCO classes from a connection yet? As mentioned in everyone's earlier posts, users with large models/number of database objects are now reduced to manual generation of files that used to take seconds. This has effectively locked us into Visual Studio 2013 because we would lose so much productivity.

    Is this tool being worked on and when will it be released?

    Thanks,
    Tom

  11. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 25 Oct Link to this post

    Hi,

    Currently, the tool is ready and is distributed through the Telerik.DataAccess.Fluent.CodeGeneration NuGet package. You can kindly find more details in this forum thread.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik by Progress
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
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