Visual Designer in VS2015

44 posts, 0 answers
  1. Steve
    Steve avatar
    20 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2011

    Posted 22 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    Hello,

    In the blog post where you announced the discontinuation of the visual designer for data access, you said:

     

    What if I still need to use the Visual Designer?
    You will be able to use older MSI installers of Telerik Data Access to continue using the visual tooling of the product.

     

    Is it possible to use the older MSI installers with Visual Studio 2015? Or will data access visual tooling never be possible within VS2015?

    Thanks
  2. DuelingCats
    DuelingCats avatar
    49 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 23 Jul 2015 in reply to Steve Link to this post

    I was just about to ask the same thing. I installed VS 2015 yesterday and would like to have the visual designer for it as well. 
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  4. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 23 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    Hello,

    The last version of Visual Studio supported by the VS integration of Data Access is Visual Studio 2013. The tools distributed through Data Access Q1 2015 (the last version, which includes Visual Designer) will not support Visual Studio 2015.

    Let me know if you have further questions.

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  5. DuelingCats
    DuelingCats avatar
    49 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 23 Jul 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Really left us out to dry...

     

    Can't you modify the extension installer to install in VS 2015 and release just that? Is it that much different? 

  6. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 27 Jul 2015 Link to this post

    Hello DuelingCats,

    Thank you for the feedback.

    The absence of a task on our roadmap about the Visual Studio integration in Visual Studio 2015 is directly related to the deprecation of the visual tools. The future releases of Data Access are not planned to include such an improvement.

    I am really sorry for your disappointment. 

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  7. Fawad
    Fawad avatar
    38 posts
    Member since:
    May 2009

    Posted 28 Jul 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Doroteya said:Hello DuelingCats,

    Thank you for the feedback.

    The absence of a task on our roadmap about the Visual Studio integration in Visual Studio 2015 is directly related to the deprecation of the visual tools. The future releases of Data Access are not planned to include such an improvement.

    I am really sorry for your disappointment. 

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.

     

    Are you saying we should ditch Data Access completely and go to some other EF which includes Visual Designers?

  8. George
    George avatar
    9 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2015

    Posted 28 Jul 2015 in reply to Fawad Link to this post

    Fawad said:

    Doroteya said:Hello DuelingCats,

    Thank you for the feedback.

    The absence of a task on our roadmap about the Visual Studio integration in Visual Studio 2015 is directly related to the deprecation of the visual tools. The future releases of Data Access are not planned to include such an improvement.

    I am really sorry for your disappointment. 

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik

     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.

     

     

    Are you saying we should ditch Data Access completely and go to some other EF which includes Visual Designers?

     

    The bad news for that plan is EF7 also ditched the visual designer.

  9. DuelingCats
    DuelingCats avatar
    49 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 28 Jul 2015 in reply to George Link to this post

    At this point, is there a reason to stay with Telerik's Data Access compared to Entity Framework? I would take a guess that Entity Framework is more widely and that may influence features and other things that typically go with a more popular framework.
  10. George
    George avatar
    9 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2015

    Posted 28 Jul 2015 in reply to DuelingCats Link to this post

    Entity Framework is certainly the default choice, given that it is the Microsoft Solution.

    I cannot comment on EF7 but EF6 did not fit with my company's large (1000 table, heavy procedure usage) legacy system.

    Code Generation + Linq support are two things that brought me to Data Access instead of EF, whose code generator just sort of gave up.

    Of course, now there is not even a generator without the 15.1 version so kinda up a creek on that one.  The versions are at least compatible enough now that I can run the generator from 15.1 and upgrade that to 15.2 but its a pain to do.

     

    For me, its stick with Data Access or create a working generator for another Linq to Db provider.  EF7 is not released, nHibernate does not have the best Linq support, Linq-to-Sql is kinda sunset and inflexible in terms of mappings.  Other libs want my credit card before I can try them.

  11. Steve
    Steve avatar
    2 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2014

    Posted 29 Jul 2015 in reply to George Link to this post

    There could be a temporary reprieve in that EF6 has been updated to work with VS2015 and will be supported for the foreseeable future. So this is better than Telerik's approach of demanding that we stick with VS2013 if we want the visual designer. I, like many others, am seriously reviewing our ORM choice in light of this announcement from Telerik.
  12. Marko Gluhak
    Marko Gluhak avatar
    68 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 05 Aug 2015 Link to this post

    Hi,

     I'm also facing this "issue". I don't know is it so big problem but is it possible to make 2015.1 version to work with VS 2015. In 2015 designer is out but maybe its possible to make older version (2015.1) compatible with 2015. Is that possible? Maybe some patch or something?

     

     

  13. Robin
    Robin avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2014

    Posted 21 Oct 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Hi Doroteya, I can understand that Telerik wishes to move to a more flexible option for the company and influence how people develop applications, however, the whole point of Telerik's existance from the get go is to provide tools for developers to be able to focus on what they're developing rather than compatibility testing and patchworking tools to work together.

    It is quite a task to decide which ORM to go to and at this point in my project's lifecycle, I had already invested a good amount of time customizing the source T4 template Telerik provides us with to generate objects. Now, my entire data layer and strategy is compromised if I want to move forward or I have to keep VS2013 installed only to open the visual designer and update from database and generate code from there.

    Generating objects saves and has saved me countless hours of writing objects from scratch and I find it a poor decision on Telerik's part to not have at least one version of their Data Access controls be installable on VS 2015. Being on 2015 would at least give us the time to refactor or migrate to another solution while getting the benefits of the updated VS platform.

    http://www.telerik.com/blogs/data-access-vnext-is-our-most-powerful-version-yet

    With this move, Telerik has cornered it's subscribers who have wholeheartedly adopted Telerik's great set of tools and built their solution on said tools only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them with no options other than sticking with old technology and for once, not because the developers are too busy or lazy to upgrade but because the supplier has decided to not make an extra effort to support a brand new product which will be around for a while.

    I've been a longtime subscriber of Telerik's control platform but this move jeopardizes my trust in Telerik as others like me have to go back to the drawing board and review something that we all thought was put to bed and running smooth.

    I'd be curious to know how much time it would cost Telerik to build just one version that installs on VS2015 versus the amount of time it'll take me and others in my situation to either convert our process and layer or move to another altogether.

    With this post, I hope to re-frame the position Telerik has put us in and seriously reconsider, for the sake of the customers time, building even a single release with the designer for VS2015.

    It's great that Telerik looks ahead and stays on the cusp of technology and trends but in the world of software development, processes are put in place and applications need support and further enhancements where it just doesn't make sense to reinvest time figuring something out that has already been dealt with.

    Let me, and us, know if there's anything we can do at all to help with the workaround for integrating the designer functionality into VS2015. I'm sure others in the community would be glad to collaborate with me to get this going so we can all benefit, at no cost to Telerik just because we can't afford to stay behind OR to convert our processes at this time.

    Regards,

    Robin

  14. Robin
    Robin avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2014

    Posted 21 Oct 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Hi Doroteya, I can understand that Telerik wishes to move to a more flexible option for the company and influence how people develop applications, however, the whole point of Telerik's existance from the get go is to provide tools for developers to be able to focus on what they're developing rather than compatibility testing and patchworking tools to work together.

    It is quite a task to decide which ORM to go to and at this point in my project's lifecycle, I had already invested a good amount of time customizing the source T4 template Telerik provides us with to generate objects. Now, my entire data layer and strategy is compromised if I want to move forward or I have to keep VS2013 installed only to open the visual designer and update from database and generate code from there.

    Generating objects saves and has saved me countless hours of writing objects from scratch and I find it a poor decision on Telerik's part to not have at least one version of their Data Access controls be installable on VS 2015. Being on 2015 would at least give us the time to refactor or migrate to another solution while getting the benefits of the updated VS platform.

    http://www.telerik.com/blogs/data-access-vnext-is-our-most-powerful-version-yet

    With this move, Telerik has cornered it's subscribers who have wholeheartedly adopted Telerik's great set of tools and built their solution on said tools only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them with no options other than sticking with old technology and for once, not because the developers are too busy or lazy to upgrade but because the supplier has decided to not make an extra effort to support a brand new product which will be around for a while.

    I've been a longtime subscriber of Telerik's control platform but this move jeopardizes my trust in Telerik as others like me have to go back to the drawing board and review something that we all thought was put to bed and running smooth.

    I'd be curious to know how much time it would cost Telerik to build just one version that installs on VS2015 versus the amount of time it'll take me and others in my situation to either convert our process and layer or move to another altogether.

    With this post, I hope to re-frame the position Telerik has put us in and seriously reconsider, for the sake of the customers time, building even a single release with the designer for VS2015.

    It's great that Telerik looks ahead and stays on the cusp of technology and trends but in the world of software development, processes are put in place and applications need support and further enhancements where it just doesn't make sense to reinvest time figuring something out that has already been dealt with.

    Let me, and us, know if there's anything we can do at all to help with the workaround for integrating the designer functionality into VS2015. I'm sure others in the community would be glad to collaborate with me to get this going so we can all benefit, at no cost to Telerik just because we can't afford to stay behind OR to convert our processes at this time.

    Regards,

    Robin
  15. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 27 Oct 2015 Link to this post

    Hello,

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback.

    Currently, we are working on a tool that will fill the gap left by the code generation tools of Data Access. It will be a simple tool that will generate fluent models based on the schemata of the databases. Our idea is to make the tool independent from any version of Visual Studio and to distribute it through a NuGet package. 

    Additionally, there will be an official announcement on the topic in the Telerik blog.

    Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  16. Mathieu
    Mathieu avatar
    21 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2014

    Posted 27 Oct 2015 in reply to Doroteya Link to this post

    Doroteya,

    thank you for sharing this information with us. At least now we know that we are not left in the cold and that Telerik is indeed working on something to fill that gap.

    This whole fuss could probably have been avoided if such a statement would have come earlier...

     Regards,

     Mathieu

  17. Marko Gluhak
    Marko Gluhak avatar
    68 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 27 Oct 2015 Link to this post

    Hi,

    can you share any time frame in which that will be available. I agree that it should be announced earlier as I know for fact that some people left Telerik because of that in search of another tool. I'm still stuck with VS 2013 and try to move to fluent but I have some issues that I need to sort like views, stored procedures, ...

    With regards,

    Marko

  18. Robin
    Robin avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2014

    Posted 27 Oct 2015 Link to this post

    Yes, thank you for that information. I think that a timeframe of which month we can expect said tool to be available would help all of us get ready so we can all plan to integrate the package into our processes.

    Thanks in advance,

    Robin

  19. Viktor Zhivkov
    Admin
    Viktor Zhivkov avatar
    291 posts

    Posted 30 Oct 2015 Link to this post

    Hello Robin,

    We are doing our best to ship the first version of the new code generation tool in November 2015.
    Still, please do not take that as firm promise as many unforeseen things can interfere with out effort. 

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  20. Robin
    Robin avatar
    7 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2014

    Posted 30 Oct 2015 in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    Sounds great! It's nice to know when 'ish we can expect to see something.

     Thanks!

  21. Marko Gluhak
    Marko Gluhak avatar
    68 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 07 Dec 2015 Link to this post

    Any update on this matter as I think many of us is waiting for that tool.
  22. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 08 Dec 2015 Link to this post

    Hi all,

    We apologize for missing the promised release date of the code generation tool.

    On our side we encountered issues that prevent us from releasing the tool as it is:
    - The installation scripts we currently have are not executed correctly with NuGet Package Manager 3.0 and higher. This makes the usage of the tool hard in Visual Studio 2013 and 2015.
    - There are a few known issues related to the update of the model from database, which have to be resolved in order to support the database first scenario properly.

    Taking all this into account our latest estimation for a release date is January 2016.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    Regards,
    Data Access Team
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  23. Peter Huisman
    Peter Huisman avatar
    16 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2004

    Posted 22 Dec 2015 Link to this post

    This is indeed quite disappointing. I knew it was to be discontinued in newer version. That's why we decided not to renew the Telerik subscriptions. But just installed VS2015 on a new environment and found out the Visual Designer 2015.1 is not working. Loved the tool for quick developing and database creation. I hope the announced tool is more than it sounds at the moment.

    Perhaps continuing is possible with crowdfunding...I would love to fund it.

  24. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 24 Dec 2015 Link to this post

    Hi Peter,

    Thank you for your honest feedback.

    The new tool will be a Powershell script distributed through NuGet packages. It will be capable of generating new fluent models and updating existing ones. Currently, its release date is set for January 2016. More information about it available in this blog post.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  25. Marko Gluhak
    Marko Gluhak avatar
    68 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 18 Jan Link to this post

    Any news on this?!
  26. Viktor Zhivkov
    Admin
    Viktor Zhivkov avatar
    291 posts

    Posted 21 Jan Link to this post

    Hello Marko,

    I am sorry but I am still unable to give you release date for the Fluent Code Generation tool.
    When we have further information I will make sure to update this thread to notify you and the whole community.

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  27. Bernd
    Bernd avatar
    53 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2013

    Posted 08 Feb in reply to Viktor Zhivkov Link to this post

    While waiting for Telerik, anyone can use my Visual Studio extension. I decided to open source it.

    https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/d5834ee0-3746-4865-89b7-9c71ee93aa5a

    As it is focused on our projects, not every feature is supported. But it is easy to adjust it to your project needs.

    Have fun with it.

  28. Juan Daniel
    Juan Daniel avatar
    3 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2012

    Posted 21 Feb Link to this post

    Hi Telerik Team,

    Any update. We need this tool asap. Please.

  29. SURYA
    SURYA avatar
    5 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2014

    Posted 22 Mar Link to this post

    On March 20, 2016 a new version of Telerik Data Access Q1 2016 has been released but still did not get Visual Designers. When it be  includes Visual Designer.
  30. Doroteya
    Admin
    Doroteya avatar
    502 posts

    Posted 25 Mar Link to this post

    Hi Juan Daniel and Surya,

    At this point the new code generation tool is still in development. What's ahead of us is to stabilize it so that it covers the necessary scenarios for generating database first fluent models from scratch. Currently, however, I am unable to provide you with a timeframe for its release.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    Regards,
    Doroteya
    Telerik
     
    Check out the latest announcement about Telerik Data Access vNext as a powerful framework able to solve core development problems.
  31. IT Manager
    IT Manager avatar
    11 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2011

    Posted 29 Mar Link to this post

    We are doing our best to ship the first version of the new code generation tool in November 2015.
    Still, please do not take that as firm promise as many unforeseen things can interfere with out effort. 

    Regards,
    Viktor Zhivkov
    Telerik

    How you doing on this 5 months past due ...

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