Hi,
as part of reviewing Rad controls, would like to know what the support is like from a developers perspective?
With my very limted experience today
a) While the controls seem to have some very nice features, missing very basic stuff seems to make then unusable?
b) These things dont seem to be getting fixed ( see datepicker pop up issues which was agreed to be fixed over 8 mths ago), but is till not done 2 releases latter.
c) If they say Q2 will it actually happen?
d) Most of my posts to these forums go unaswered, same with support tickets? is this normal?
Any experiences welcome, as this si probally the most imporatnt aspect of my considerations..
Thanks..
as part of reviewing Rad controls, would like to know what the support is like from a developers perspective?
With my very limted experience today
a) While the controls seem to have some very nice features, missing very basic stuff seems to make then unusable?
b) These things dont seem to be getting fixed ( see datepicker pop up issues which was agreed to be fixed over 8 mths ago), but is till not done 2 releases latter.
c) If they say Q2 will it actually happen?
d) Most of my posts to these forums go unaswered, same with support tickets? is this normal?
Any experiences welcome, as this si probally the most imporatnt aspect of my considerations..
Thanks..
6 Answers, 1 is accepted
0
Hello Ray,
By means of introduction my name is Stefan Rahnev and I am Technical Support Director here at Telerik.
I reviewed your support history and found that most of the questions you asked in the public forums and all your support threads have been answered by my colleagues. I can assure you that the quality of the support service we provide is one of our top priorities and we constantly work on improving it even further and participate active in the public forums/value the feedback from the Telerik community.
Therefore, we guarantee that 95% of the public forum threads get an answer either from Telerik support officer or other community member. If you need further assistance or would like to escalate a question concerning our products, either start a regular support ticket or reply/reopen the corresponding forum entry.
Additionally, our controls have various support resources (online demos, documentation, KB articles, code library entries, etc.) which cover various scenarios and can be useful to you. To optimize your support resources searches, review the tips from this blog post.
Regarding the screen boundary detection for RadDatePicker we promised some time ago:
Indeed we have not managed to implement this enhancement for the date picker popup as it appears to be more cumbersome and tricky than we initially thought, especially when it has to be cross-browser. However, we will do everything possible to find a stable solution for the Q2 2009 release of the product (the ETA is in the beginning of July) and I can promise you that we will invest the necessary resources and effort to make this happen.
I apologize for the delay and can encourage you to test the Beta version of the Q2 2009 release once it is available to share your feedback with us.
Kind regards,
Stefan Rahnev,
Technical Support Director, Telerik
Check out Telerik Trainer , the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
By means of introduction my name is Stefan Rahnev and I am Technical Support Director here at Telerik.
I reviewed your support history and found that most of the questions you asked in the public forums and all your support threads have been answered by my colleagues. I can assure you that the quality of the support service we provide is one of our top priorities and we constantly work on improving it even further and participate active in the public forums/value the feedback from the Telerik community.
Therefore, we guarantee that 95% of the public forum threads get an answer either from Telerik support officer or other community member. If you need further assistance or would like to escalate a question concerning our products, either start a regular support ticket or reply/reopen the corresponding forum entry.
Additionally, our controls have various support resources (online demos, documentation, KB articles, code library entries, etc.) which cover various scenarios and can be useful to you. To optimize your support resources searches, review the tips from this blog post.
Regarding the screen boundary detection for RadDatePicker we promised some time ago:
Indeed we have not managed to implement this enhancement for the date picker popup as it appears to be more cumbersome and tricky than we initially thought, especially when it has to be cross-browser. However, we will do everything possible to find a stable solution for the Q2 2009 release of the product (the ETA is in the beginning of July) and I can promise you that we will invest the necessary resources and effort to make this happen.
I apologize for the delay and can encourage you to test the Beta version of the Q2 2009 release once it is available to share your feedback with us.
Kind regards,
Stefan Rahnev,
Technical Support Director, Telerik
Check out Telerik Trainer , the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
0
Martin de Ruiter
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answered on 20 Mar 2009, 05:56 PM
To add an opinion from a developers perspective (as I'm not a Telerik employee, just a happy customer for about 3 years now):
a. I don't see any basic stuff missing, I find the control collection very usable, and to be honest I currently can't do without as I have implemented them in all my applications and websites.
b. Most of the time things get fixed very quickly, even through custom internal builds (so not only by quarterly release or service pack). Occasionally it happens that it takes a bit longer for some issues to be fixed, but this depends on importance, because I experienced that Telerik mainly prioritizes based on number of requests. Bugs that really break an application get always fixed quickly.
c. Again, most of the time, also depends on customer requests. Promises are nearly always fulfilled.
d. I think almost any forum post gets answered, for sure any support ticket is answered.
Hope this helps for your considerations.
Kind regards,
Martin de Ruiter
a. I don't see any basic stuff missing, I find the control collection very usable, and to be honest I currently can't do without as I have implemented them in all my applications and websites.
b. Most of the time things get fixed very quickly, even through custom internal builds (so not only by quarterly release or service pack). Occasionally it happens that it takes a bit longer for some issues to be fixed, but this depends on importance, because I experienced that Telerik mainly prioritizes based on number of requests. Bugs that really break an application get always fixed quickly.
c. Again, most of the time, also depends on customer requests. Promises are nearly always fulfilled.
d. I think almost any forum post gets answered, for sure any support ticket is answered.
Hope this helps for your considerations.
Kind regards,
Martin de Ruiter
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Ray
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answered on 20 Mar 2009, 08:51 PM
Telerik Admin 
Posted 3 hours ago
Hello Ray,
By means of introduction my name is Stefan Rahnev and I am Technical Support Director here at Telerik.
I reviewed your support history and found that most of the questions you asked in the public forums and all your support threads have been answered by my colleagues.
>> In fact NOT one issue has been addressed, but you are correct there have been unrelated answers provided..
Regarding the screen boundary detection for RadDatePicker we promised some time ago:
Indeed we have not managed to implement this enhancement for the date picker popup as it appears to be more cumbersome and tricky than we initially thought,
>> Every commercial datepicker control, see my reference within thread, supports this capablity today ( also see asp.net for other controls), yours is the ONLY one I have found that does not... This is very very basic requirement, to be usable..
Therefore, we guarantee that 95% of the public forum threads get an answer either from Telerik support officer or other community member..
>> Poting a reply is not support, posting a reply that a) is on topic, and b) is useful to the customer is what is important..
Most of your support is infantile, and seems to be for the benefit of the supporter not the customer.. See Q3 2008 many threads where customers are trying to get this point accross to you without success.. You need to listen to your customers and how "they" use your controls... Keep telling them that you know best is not going to cut it..
I can promise you that we will invest the necessary resources and effort to make this happen.
>> This is a very resonable approach... but the proof is in the delivery...
Ofter a very extensive review (we have spend a very consideable amount of time), we have concluded that your "people" support is totally useless, and a waste of our time; but if we can get a workable source code solution we can fix the defects ourselves.
Renameing the grid elements back to be complient with the normal Gridview will be a pain, but will make using Rad grid possible..
You realy must stop changing things which break compatability with Msoft controls with out any gain.. i.e use normal OO techniques, extend, but dont break stuff ( an example is caption alignment which is broken in your grid), missing in your comparision docs etc....
The online docs and demos's are above average (the inablity to match the docs to your continual changes is problematic)..
Hope this helps others..
Will let you all know how we fare with the reply on the source code..
Thanks for your reponses..
Ray..
END..
By means of introduction my name is Stefan Rahnev and I am Technical Support Director here at Telerik.
I reviewed your support history and found that most of the questions you asked in the public forums and all your support threads have been answered by my colleagues.
>> In fact NOT one issue has been addressed, but you are correct there have been unrelated answers provided..
Regarding the screen boundary detection for RadDatePicker we promised some time ago:
Indeed we have not managed to implement this enhancement for the date picker popup as it appears to be more cumbersome and tricky than we initially thought,
>> Every commercial datepicker control, see my reference within thread, supports this capablity today ( also see asp.net for other controls), yours is the ONLY one I have found that does not... This is very very basic requirement, to be usable..
Therefore, we guarantee that 95% of the public forum threads get an answer either from Telerik support officer or other community member..
>> Poting a reply is not support, posting a reply that a) is on topic, and b) is useful to the customer is what is important..
Most of your support is infantile, and seems to be for the benefit of the supporter not the customer.. See Q3 2008 many threads where customers are trying to get this point accross to you without success.. You need to listen to your customers and how "they" use your controls... Keep telling them that you know best is not going to cut it..
I can promise you that we will invest the necessary resources and effort to make this happen.
>> This is a very resonable approach... but the proof is in the delivery...
Ofter a very extensive review (we have spend a very consideable amount of time), we have concluded that your "people" support is totally useless, and a waste of our time; but if we can get a workable source code solution we can fix the defects ourselves.
Renameing the grid elements back to be complient with the normal Gridview will be a pain, but will make using Rad grid possible..
You realy must stop changing things which break compatability with Msoft controls with out any gain.. i.e use normal OO techniques, extend, but dont break stuff ( an example is caption alignment which is broken in your grid), missing in your comparision docs etc....
The online docs and demos's are above average (the inablity to match the docs to your continual changes is problematic)..
Hope this helps others..
Will let you all know how we fare with the reply on the source code..
Thanks for your reponses..
Ray..
END..
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Poul Henningsen
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answered on 23 Mar 2009, 09:07 AM
I second Martin on 100%. I'm not a Telerik employer, I'm just a happy customer for almost 2 years and I'm about to renew my Subscription for a third year. Yes, there are bugs in the controls (nobody's perfect), but Telerik are very fast on resolving almost every bug we (the customers) report. Yes, not all forum posts are answered by Telerik stuff, but hey - that's a community resource after all. It is supposed that we (the users) should help each other in the forums. On the other side, all my support tickets are always answered within 24 hours (I'm on a premium support package).
As a final note, Ray - I think you have two options:
a) if you are a unhappy/angry customer (as it seams so), you can ask for refund. Here you can find more info on telerik refund policy.
b) if you are still evaluating the controls, no bad feelings - just move on. There are other 3rd party controls/suites that may suit your requirements. Simple as that :-)
Cheers,
Poul
As a final note, Ray - I think you have two options:
a) if you are a unhappy/angry customer (as it seams so), you can ask for refund. Here you can find more info on telerik refund policy.
b) if you are still evaluating the controls, no bad feelings - just move on. There are other 3rd party controls/suites that may suit your requirements. Simple as that :-)
Cheers,
Poul
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PureCode
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answered on 24 Mar 2009, 12:19 AM
During the long years of developing our (highly specific) framework for the industry we cater to, we have used three major product-suites to develop (more or less) three different versions of the framework, this as a means to REALLY review the respective suites in a real-world scenario (and one so complex that most people can't grasp it).
Suffice to say,we didn't actually BUY the suites, we've been using trial versions, upgrading whenever a new version is released (which reviews the ability of such a suite to actually work within an existing application, none really do, but that is for a large part accountable to the complexity of the framework).
Telerik's support is BY FAR the best of the three chosen suites. Sure, they're not always the fastest (and they don't need to be, i believe they state 72 hours for trial versions). Both the forums (the community has been very helpful a number of times, and Telerik staff, often project managers and other higher level individuals are often the first to reply to a post) as well as the support ticket system have provided very good information as well as fixes to issues. In contrast, getting support for the other two suites (which are both MAJOR product suites) has been a real pain, both pretty much stating 'buy our product and we'll help' a number of times.
Telerik's product suite is very good, but does, indeed, lack some things that others do provide. One major example is RadComboBox, which is totally useless as compared to the competition, it is practically impossible to get the drop down list to look consistent when it is displaying volatile information. In this case, we simply override it entirely, and use the Telerik assembly from our own code to create a custom combo box. Requires a lot of Reflection to access things like skinning because so much of the assembly is protected/internal/sealed/etc but in the end we do have a combo box that does what it needs to do yet 'fits' in perfectly with the rest of the product suite. Javascript is pretty easy to extend (override being the word there really) as are server controls, so tweaking the suite isn't too much of a hassle. In fact, i do believe that we fixed that date picker issue last year using the same method, simply overriding the javascript for it and 'inserting' our own (do note, we override the embedded javascript, we only add our own javascript files to the dozens of projects the framework consists of, where needed, all the tweakage is done by a seperate assembly though, called Telerik.Web.UI.Extended). One can even 'insert' custom client-side events right into the Telerik javascript for a control if needed.
On the other hand it has some functionality that others don't have, or when they do have it, it is very poorly implemented.
This goes in both directions, you can not expect all product suites to have the same functionality, one needs an edge to sell suites like this, Telerik goes for the 'what a web application may need, we have it' approach, which is not a bad one to take in this particular market. Just look at how fast they had a Silverlight suite going as compared to their competitors, while Silverlight requires a download by the user (and as thus, is a complete and total no-no to use in, at least, my industry), i thought that was pretty impressive, considering the functionality it delivered then.
As a business owner, i've learned that support is incredibly important, especially when one sells incredibly complex software, be it custom for a customer or a framework like the one we're working. We even develop highly complex simulation models for super-computers for that matter. So, we go for a similar approach as Telerik when it comes to our 'products', if my customer needs it, we'll deliver it. With such a wide range of products, support becomes a major priority, especially support delivered by people who actually know what they are talking about (not easy in the case of, say, a simulation model). The better my support, the sooner my customers will return to me for other products. As much as time wasted costs me money, it costs untold amounts more money for my customers, if i want to keep my customers, i'll have to deliver not only the products, but also the support (and they pay a yearly fee for most of such support, although it depends on the contract we have with the customer) in order for them to use the products correctly.
So far, we've had ups and downs with all three of the product suites, but Telerik never fails to provide support where needed, and that is to a potential customer, not one who already paid. Bugs, inconsistencies, the occational screw up, etc can all be forgiven, as long as the communication with the right people is in place and something actually happens that deals with whatever the issue is. Telerik has, so far, not failed to deliver.
In the end, while Telerik's product suite has been the most troublesome to implement into our framework, it has also been the quickest to implement, partly due to the low complexity of the product suite (it is MUCH more transparent than the two competing products) but for a very large part also the prompt support and the actual productivity level that follows in order to help, be it a work-around or a fix within the assembly. All that, puts Telerik at the top of our list at the moment, and when we do make the final decision on which suite to use and we decide on Telerik, i am convinced that the relationship between them, us and my customers is going to be very enjoyable. It has been so far, i don't see why it would change.
Regards,
Mike
Suffice to say,we didn't actually BUY the suites, we've been using trial versions, upgrading whenever a new version is released (which reviews the ability of such a suite to actually work within an existing application, none really do, but that is for a large part accountable to the complexity of the framework).
Telerik's support is BY FAR the best of the three chosen suites. Sure, they're not always the fastest (and they don't need to be, i believe they state 72 hours for trial versions). Both the forums (the community has been very helpful a number of times, and Telerik staff, often project managers and other higher level individuals are often the first to reply to a post) as well as the support ticket system have provided very good information as well as fixes to issues. In contrast, getting support for the other two suites (which are both MAJOR product suites) has been a real pain, both pretty much stating 'buy our product and we'll help' a number of times.
Telerik's product suite is very good, but does, indeed, lack some things that others do provide. One major example is RadComboBox, which is totally useless as compared to the competition, it is practically impossible to get the drop down list to look consistent when it is displaying volatile information. In this case, we simply override it entirely, and use the Telerik assembly from our own code to create a custom combo box. Requires a lot of Reflection to access things like skinning because so much of the assembly is protected/internal/sealed/etc but in the end we do have a combo box that does what it needs to do yet 'fits' in perfectly with the rest of the product suite. Javascript is pretty easy to extend (override being the word there really) as are server controls, so tweaking the suite isn't too much of a hassle. In fact, i do believe that we fixed that date picker issue last year using the same method, simply overriding the javascript for it and 'inserting' our own (do note, we override the embedded javascript, we only add our own javascript files to the dozens of projects the framework consists of, where needed, all the tweakage is done by a seperate assembly though, called Telerik.Web.UI.Extended). One can even 'insert' custom client-side events right into the Telerik javascript for a control if needed.
On the other hand it has some functionality that others don't have, or when they do have it, it is very poorly implemented.
This goes in both directions, you can not expect all product suites to have the same functionality, one needs an edge to sell suites like this, Telerik goes for the 'what a web application may need, we have it' approach, which is not a bad one to take in this particular market. Just look at how fast they had a Silverlight suite going as compared to their competitors, while Silverlight requires a download by the user (and as thus, is a complete and total no-no to use in, at least, my industry), i thought that was pretty impressive, considering the functionality it delivered then.
As a business owner, i've learned that support is incredibly important, especially when one sells incredibly complex software, be it custom for a customer or a framework like the one we're working. We even develop highly complex simulation models for super-computers for that matter. So, we go for a similar approach as Telerik when it comes to our 'products', if my customer needs it, we'll deliver it. With such a wide range of products, support becomes a major priority, especially support delivered by people who actually know what they are talking about (not easy in the case of, say, a simulation model). The better my support, the sooner my customers will return to me for other products. As much as time wasted costs me money, it costs untold amounts more money for my customers, if i want to keep my customers, i'll have to deliver not only the products, but also the support (and they pay a yearly fee for most of such support, although it depends on the contract we have with the customer) in order for them to use the products correctly.
So far, we've had ups and downs with all three of the product suites, but Telerik never fails to provide support where needed, and that is to a potential customer, not one who already paid. Bugs, inconsistencies, the occational screw up, etc can all be forgiven, as long as the communication with the right people is in place and something actually happens that deals with whatever the issue is. Telerik has, so far, not failed to deliver.
In the end, while Telerik's product suite has been the most troublesome to implement into our framework, it has also been the quickest to implement, partly due to the low complexity of the product suite (it is MUCH more transparent than the two competing products) but for a very large part also the prompt support and the actual productivity level that follows in order to help, be it a work-around or a fix within the assembly. All that, puts Telerik at the top of our list at the moment, and when we do make the final decision on which suite to use and we decide on Telerik, i am convinced that the relationship between them, us and my customers is going to be very enjoyable. It has been so far, i don't see why it would change.
Regards,
Mike
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PureCode
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answered on 24 Mar 2009, 12:33 AM
Re: Ray,
You speak of RadGrid and 'extend' the Microsoft GridView, as far as I am aware (and I am not the one who extended RadGrid in my business, so I may be WAY off here) it does not extend the Microsoft GridView but is a completely separated control.
Just had a real quick look with Reflector, and it bases itself off CompositeDataBoundControl (deep down). GridColumns use their own GridColumn class, which in turn comes from, well.. a few interfaces. Even a row in the grid derives itself deep down from a simple TableRow.
Since I spent about four minutes looking at this, I may STILL be wrong somewhere (and the guy who extended RadGrid for our framework isn't here anymore, work day has ended already, he could answer that question in a flash), but I can't really see how you will bring this back to GridView, would mean some MAJOR changes to the Telerik assembly, might as well whip up your own DataGrid in that case, would take less time probably.
But, as a post above me stated, you don't have to use Telerik, thankfully, we do have a free market and there is plenty of choices out there.
Regards,
Mike
You speak of RadGrid and 'extend' the Microsoft GridView, as far as I am aware (and I am not the one who extended RadGrid in my business, so I may be WAY off here) it does not extend the Microsoft GridView but is a completely separated control.
Just had a real quick look with Reflector, and it bases itself off CompositeDataBoundControl (deep down). GridColumns use their own GridColumn class, which in turn comes from, well.. a few interfaces. Even a row in the grid derives itself deep down from a simple TableRow.
Since I spent about four minutes looking at this, I may STILL be wrong somewhere (and the guy who extended RadGrid for our framework isn't here anymore, work day has ended already, he could answer that question in a flash), but I can't really see how you will bring this back to GridView, would mean some MAJOR changes to the Telerik assembly, might as well whip up your own DataGrid in that case, would take less time probably.
But, as a post above me stated, you don't have to use Telerik, thankfully, we do have a free market and there is plenty of choices out there.
Regards,
Mike