Telerik Extensions for LightSwitch

140 posts, 0 answers
  1. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 28 Feb 2011 Link to this post

    Hello B,

    We do not have anything new. We are waiting for a more complete version of LightSwitch which to test against.


    All the best,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Registration for Q1 2011 What’s New Webinar Week is now open. Mark your calendar for the week starting March 21st and book your seat for a walk through all the exciting stuff we ship with the new release!
  2. edison fernando
    edison fernando avatar
    18 posts
    Member since:
    May 2010

    Posted 17 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I wonder if you think about making extensions to LS, since there is no information from you
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  4. Frank
    Frank avatar
    4 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2008

    Posted 17 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    LightSwitch Beta 2 is out now and it seems as if the RC will be build from it,
    is now the time for Telerik to jump in ?
  5. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 18 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    We will very much appreciate your feedback and share your ideas with us. This will help us provide better support for LightSwitch that will fit your needs. More specifically, we would like to know:
     
    • How do you plan to use LightSwitch. Do you plan to use it instead of Access, or will you make data entry business apps?
    • What do you envision Telerik to provide for LightSwitch? Controls, forms, reporting, and/or themes? What else?
    • Whom should we target? The Developer (you), or the Business User? May be both?

    Feel free to share any other ideas that come to mind.

    Thanks!

    Regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
  6. Oscar
    Oscar avatar
    25 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2012

    Posted 18 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    Well the best way to answer this if with the actual forum blogs from the LightSwitch users,

    LightSwitch was first intentioned as a Microsoft Access for the web, but it was soon discovered by all developers as the way to develop software for the future

    The ability to develop LightSwitch 'modules'
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/lightswitchgeneral/thread/2a047eca-c242-4c80-88ad-89fca73c9f41

    could we build ERP system with LS or is just for small app
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/lightswitchgeneral/thread/63720faf-a2d3-48cb-a847-9d5aeb50facb

    the truth about Microsoft LightSwitch on the Business Application Development
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/lightswitchgeneral/thread/09783abf-e957-4382-99c4-895ab596617a

    What's the ratio of "newbie" questions vs experienced .NET questions on LightSwitch?
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/lightswitchgeneral/thread/8d953e6c-4db7-4758-a380-f5c2f5b7cf52

    is Lightswitch positioned as an entry level application generator?
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/lightswitchgeneral/thread/c68f6085-abd3-4016-b79f-8d39af9f3b45

    Beta 2: First Words
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/lightswitchgeneral/thread/304471a0-e1fb-4b37-927d-81775340c1c7

    you will see why Telerik is needed

    Regards..
  7. Ben Hayat
    Ben Hayat avatar
    892 posts
    Member since:
    May 2008

    Posted 18 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    Excellent questions Vassil;

    I'll also post my request on LS forum for developers to come in here and give you feedback!
    ..Ben
  8. edison fernando
    edison fernando avatar
    18 posts
    Member since:
    May 2010

    Posted 18 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    in regards to me like more screen layouts, reports, and controls for business applications
  9. Ken Morris
    Ken Morris avatar
    5 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2010

    Posted 19 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    "We will very much appreciate your feedback and share your ideas with us. This will help us provide better support for LightSwitch that will fit your needs. More specifically, we would like to know:

    • How do you plan to use LightSwitch. Do you plan to use it instead of Access, or will you make data entry business apps?
    • What do you envision Telerik to provide for LightSwitch? Controls, forms, reporting, and/or themes? What else?
    • Whom should we target? The Developer (you), or the Business User? May be both?

    Feel free to share any other ideas that come to mind.

    Thanks!

    Regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team "

    for our company here are the answers:
    we do not use access, we use MS SQL server, we have several cases where we are interested in using LS to add better data / crud to systems that are already live and in production, as an alternative to manually creating more html pages.

    what you can bring to the table: 
    1) make all the silverlight controls work with LS
    2) tools to help developers and designers create themes and shells for LS
    3) fill in the gaps in what LS offers, for example a RichText control that works with LS, include a datatype extension so that we can use the ls designer to create a table with a richtext column and have LS know how to manage it in all phazes.

    who to target:  both, this is not always easy but there are two levels of how to use LS, the simple WSIWIG and the advanced pro dev.
  10. Ben Hayat
    Ben Hayat avatar
    892 posts
    Member since:
    May 2008

    Posted 19 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    Hi Vassil;

    I'd like to offer my two cents on different fronts as well;
    My points are also including the priority level and what should take place first and next and next...

    Cent 1) Being involved with Telerik for several years, I'd say telerik has one of the best tech support I've encounter. And at the same time watching the level of the users of the products, the majority seem to be professional/educated/experienced developers. From these two points, I can conclude the current infrastructure of the support team (which is a big division for any company who cares about customer service) is designed and geared towards pro developers than novice/Business users. In the case of LS that supports two group of users, I think Telerik is more structured, not only to produce product for pro developers, but also support them the pro developers. The novice crowd requires a different support, products and marketing which I'm not sure at this point Telerik has the resources allocated for. So, my vote is to stick to pro developers.

    Cent 2) What Products? LS claims that Silverlight controls should be able to be consumed in LS without much difficulty as "User" or "Custom" controls. These type of usage aren't the optimum format to use a third party control in LS, but for some of the cases it will do. My suggestion is to test the current RADControls for Silverlight in LS and make sure as "User Control" they work fine. This group is almost like a given that will work and would be a great introduction of RADControls for those who have not used it.
    However, where telerik has always shined and will continue to shine, is to build controls for a specific platforms, i.e. ASP.Net, WinForm, Silverlight, WPF, ORM and etc. I think the next platform is Lightswitch that should receive a series of controls in the form of LS Extensions. Since LS is primarily designed for LoB apps, I would focus to bring over some of the Silverlight controls that work in LoB environment, i.e. GridView, TreeView, Chart, DataFilter, Gauge, MaskedEditBox, Outlookbar, panelbar, RichTextBox, Map, Upload & Reporting.
    As the first phase, I'd focus on Extension controls, before Themes or Shell or DataSource or BusinessType.

    I think these two paragraphs sums up my points and once phase one is under way, telerik can decide phase two.
    ..Ben
  11. Rommel Manalo
    Rommel Manalo avatar
    14 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2006

    Posted 20 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I want to see the telerik controls be wrapped as LightSwitch Extension. Like the LS grid, i want to replace it with your grid.
  12. Ben Hayat
    Ben Hayat avatar
    892 posts
    Member since:
    May 2008

    Posted 23 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I'm very surprised to see anyone has hardly responded to this post or the one we left on the Lightswitch forum regarding third party controls. I don't know how to interpret this lack of response. Does it mean what LS offers out of the box is complete enough that people don't need third party controls or does it mean, not too many Silverlight Pro devs are jumping on LS? Or what?
    ..Ben
  13. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 24 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    Hello guys,

    Thank you for your excellent feedback so far - do not fear to share anything else that comes to mind. I have forwarded your comments to the Silverlight product manager for review and consideration. We will keep you updated on our decisions regarding LightSwitch.


    Regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
  14. Bruce
    Bruce avatar
    8 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2008

    Posted 24 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I think reporting is the achilles heel of LS - making reporting seamless using Telerik reporting would be a big step forward.
    HTH
  15. Cliff McManus
    Cliff McManus avatar
    32 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2011

    Posted 24 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    What do I want? Here is my wish list.
    • Seamless Reporting and graphing hooked into LightSwitch. As you can see there is a big opportunity here for Telerik.
    • Telerik Silverlight Controls that are easy to integrate or already hooked into the LightSwitch framework.
    • A statement that Telerik has made the decision to invest resources in LightSwitch followed by a high level timeline for releases even if it is very rough as in quarters.
    • Telerik themes that can be applied to the application.

    I intend on writing business applications with LS. I have been using it for 7 months now and have an app in Beta 1 with about 50 windows and 40 entities, so far I am about half way completed.  In my mind this is not just a MS Access replacement it is a rapid development tool for business applications (Forms over data) that gives us many options for deployment.

    Thanks for the consideration.
    Cliff

  16. edison fernando
    edison fernando avatar
    18 posts
    Member since:
    May 2010

    Posted 26 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    custom  control print telerik ?
  17. Rayne
    Rayne avatar
    241 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2010

    Posted 29 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    I plan to use Lightswitch to create data entry business apps. A lot of what I'm doing is migrating databases from an old mainframe system to new MS technologies, so the data exists already. Lightswitch can get my users up and running fairly quickly so they can continue to use the data they are working with, while I add new functionality as needed.

    I hope to see Reporting first and foremost, since it's been pretty clear all along that Lightswitch will not include reporting capabilities, along with seamless integration of the silverlight controls, so that properties can be set from within lightswitch.

    I'd also like to see some variety of shells, so that we have more options than the one that comes out of the box. Something to aid importing and exporting of data would be extremely helpful. You can already export to Excel from a desktop client, but importing with the ability to map the columns in your file to the columns in the entity/entities, would be even better.

    Now that Beta 2 is out with GoLive license, I'm definitely looking at it for my next project at work.
  18. edison fernando
    edison fernando avatar
    18 posts
    Member since:
    May 2010

    Posted 30 Mar 2011 Link to this post

    when given information about the extensions
    proposed here, Telerik does not give much importance to Ligtswitch
     ?
  19. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 01 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Hello Edison,

    We simply have nothing more to add to what we said last week - we will update this thread as soon as we have more information on our LightSwitch support.


    All the best,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  20. Rob
    Rob avatar
    37 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2008

    Posted 03 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    As I see it, LightSwitch is a godsend to RIA Services consultants.  It uses the full stack of the latest technologies like MEF, SL4.0, RIA, WCF, EF, etc, but allows me to build enterprise apps that typically have hundreds upon hundreds of tables, with very little time.  Since data CRUD is about the same for most every app, I can just spend my time on the business logic that is custom to the app and blaze through in a couple days what would normally take weeks of effort.  This means I can underbid others, win more contracts, and gain more loyal customers.  Lightswitch is not another Access or VB, it is a framework and model that allows me to stand on the shoulders of all of MSFT's great tech and climb higher, faster, and farther than others, all to my benefit.  And it is surprisingly customizable given that I can use my own RIA Services Library, my own User Controls and Custom Controls, and extend it rather easily via all the samples in the new extensions cookbook PDF.

    That being said, it is important to understand that Lightswitch is very relevant to the Telerik customer.  We need a drop of your control set for LS, and we need it right away.  This is not a particularly difficult task for you guys so I would like to see it first, and soon.  Second, since Telerik as shown to make great sample silverlight "shells" such as your demo shell, I would like to see a few Shells and Themes produced by you guys for LS.  To date, I have not had to buy control suites from any of your competitors and so I have stayed a loyal customer.  But if one of them releases a LS suite first, and I don't have a beta drop or at least a clear roadmap of when one is coming from Telerik, I will have to move on, which I would hate to do.  So please keep us informed and stay transparent!
  21. Erjan Gavalji
    Admin
    Erjan Gavalji avatar
    1455 posts

    Posted 07 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Guys,

    Once again, thank you for the constructive feedback indeed!

    In an effort to be transparent (thanks Rob), I just wanted to update you on a small step we did with regards to our LightSwitch interop:
    As per my colleague, Vladimir's post, RadControls for Silverlight are very easily integrated to the platform.

    Cheers,
    Erjan Gavalji
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  22. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 13 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Hi guys,

    I am pleased to let you know that you can start using Telerik Reporting in LightSwitch Beta 2. It should be quite straight forward, because the Silverlight viewer operates fine in Beta 2 - just check Vladimir's blog with image instructions: How To Use Telerik Reporting in Microsoft LightSwitch Beta 2

    Give it a try and let us know what you think.


    Kind regards,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  23. MikeK
    MikeK avatar
    46 posts
    Member since:
    Oct 2007

    Posted 18 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    A few weeks ago our local .net user group had their annual conference where one of the speakers was the business unit manager from Microsoft who oversees LightSwitch. I had the opportunity to discuss his (and Microsoft's) plans for LightSwitch.

    When I first saw this new product I thought MS was just trying to push out a new Access type of app for the newer technology. It really looks that way, and according to the speaker - it could be used by power users for this purpose. The presentation noted that it was positioned in the VS workspace rather than in the Office workspace, like Access.

    What I took out of the conference is that I can make use of this product for probably about 70% of our needs. This means that a lot of projects that are on hold can move forward. Yes, the interface is a bit more basic than what I'd like, but then again they look decent enough. I can STOP people from storing critical information in spreadsheets, which they do now. Funny thing is that the same thing happens at Microsoft - per the program manager. He gave an example of how Microsoft used LightSwitch to replace one of their internal applications no one was using. The staff was keeping their data in spreadsheets ;-}  I love that.

    The product shows potential, it's up to us (or me) to identify how to make it work best for our needs. I remember when VB 1 was released, on 2 floppy disks. At that point in time the only way to build a form and put a button on it was to write C++. Suddenly, someone could code something in minutes to do what took infinitely longer (and more skill). You wouldn't want to write an operating system with VB 1, but that wasn't the goal. For something appropriate, it served a purpose and cut down development time. Same here.

    What do I want to see in tools or options?
    • A method to identify what screens are available to the user and when. I don't want to show the end user all forms all the time. They should only be able to reach specific forms through appropriate actions from the exposed forms.
    • A security method to be able to lock functionality of forms, controls, etc. to specific roles.
    • A clean method of reporting. From what I've read on this forum, I should be able to do this with Telerik's report package.
    • I would love to be able to drop a RadGrid on a form, and hook it up similar to an asp.net ajax RadGrid. We use these ALL the time, and they cover about 98% of our functional needs.
    • Be able to drop a style option on the form, like the form decorator and/or style options from asp.net and Winform Telerik packages.

  24. Paul
    Paul avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2010

    Posted 20 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    @Vassil,

    With all due respect, that referenced article only shows how to add a report control, not how to use it with LightSwitch

    Almost any Silverlight based control can be added as a custom control to LightSwitch. The value from doing so will be when the control can be bound to the data within LightSwitch.  

    The referenced article assumes that the use of the reporting control will be bound to something outside of the scope of LightSwitch itself. Developing in LightSwitch takes a data-centric approach.  This should be considered when posting articles about how to add Telerik controls to LightSwitch.

    For example: http://www.paulspatterson.com/technology/lightswitch/microsoft-lightswitch-adding-telerik-silverlight-controls/

    I look forward to more information about how to actually bind reports to LightSwitch.

    Thanks.


  25. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 21 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    You are correct, Paul. The thing is that the Silverlight viewer of Telerik Reporting did not work at all in the first version of LightSwitch, thus the blog.


    All the best,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  26. Paul
    Paul avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2010

    Posted 21 Apr 2011 Link to this post

    Understood, and we do appreciate the efforts Vassil.

    Thanks again,

    Paul
  27. Rommel
    Rommel avatar
    4 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2011

    Posted 04 May 2011 Link to this post

    Any CTP's yet that we can play around? LS Team released their draft cookbook in LS Extension. 
  28. Rob
    Rob avatar
    37 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2008

    Posted 19 May 2011 Link to this post

    It's been awhile so checking back in.  Can you push the marketing/products team to release an official statement if Telerik plans to develop extensions for LS?  I'm sure that internally you would have made a go/no-go decision on this for the RTM release of LS.  We need to know if you plan anything...
  29. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 25 May 2011 Link to this post

    Hi Rob,

    We do not plan to provide additional LightSwitch-specific development until the Q2 2011 release (due in July). LightSwitch will be discussed once again during our planning meetings for Q3, which will be in late July.


    Best wishes,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  30. Rommel
    Rommel avatar
    4 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2011

    Posted 28 May 2011 Link to this post

    You are already 1 step behind the DevExpress.. (http://www.devexpress.com/Subscriptions/DXperience/WhatsNew2011v1/index.xml?page=2).

     They already provided the support for reporting and yet you are still on the early stage whether to support this LS or not.. Hope you can overtake them in the long run if not, sorry but one of your customer might switch to DevExpress.. :)
  31. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 28 May 2011 Link to this post

    We are not letting you go that easy, Rob :)

    Check out my post from April 13 - we already support the functionality DevExpress is about to release.


    All the best,
    Vassil
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
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