Q1 skins

76 posts, 0 answers
  1. YodaKIRI
    YodaKIRI avatar
    33 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2006

    Posted 12 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hello,

    I just installed new Q1, there are a lot of great thinks but new Skins are making me crazy.

    Is it possible to use previous skins version ?
    If you want details : new skins are too big, text is strange (too small or too bold), problems with layout.

    Please help !
  2. Graycrow
    Graycrow avatar
    12 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2007

    Posted 12 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hi Telerik,
    I just installed it too. Well guys, this is disaster. First of all, you changed the skin names. Now I don't know where and when application will throw another runtime error because of incorrect skin name.  Even more - you removed appearance/skins from demo pages and now I don't  know where I can found "The Correct New Skin Names" and where I can preview them. And as I can see this is just a beginning of my problems with this new skins.
  3. Peter Zolja
    Peter Zolja avatar
    119 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2007

    Posted 12 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I haven't looked at it yet, but I second Graycrow's frustration: The skin preview for each control was one of the most useful features of the demo site.
  4. Chris
    Chris avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2007

    Posted 12 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I third it....bring back the skin preview please
  5. Levi
    Levi avatar
    134 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2008

    Posted 12 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I can only ask myself what were you guys thinking when you once again changed all the existing skins making them look totally inconsistent with any interfaces using your current skins. This is so incredibly STUPID. I love you guys but seriously.

    If you guys want to do something creative, make NEW skins, don't ruin old skins to look totally ridiculous and bearing little resemblance to Vista or anything else they are supposed to represent. I hoped you guys would have learned the lesson the first time, but I guess you want to make it impossible for anyone to smoothly upgrade without ruining the look of their application. These are not improvements. The usability is very poor. The colors are too busy, no contrast, just mostly unusable skins. The few that were clean now are too dark, just a step backwards in so many ways.

    And no more skin previews in the demos section? Come on guys!! This whole release just doesn't make any sense to me. You guys have the best controls but these are such bad moves in my opinion.
  6. YodaKIRI
    YodaKIRI avatar
    33 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2006

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    As it seems my post is also talking about selecting skins~2c there is a combobox on the upper right to preview skin and it is better because we can preview on any samples now.~3cbr /~3e ~3cbr /~3e After a few tweaks about new skins I still think there is a problem~2c why there is no choice ~3f why not doing 2 versions with old and new skins ~3f~3cbr /~3e And most important~2c why not asking about your customers before validating new skins ~3f~3cbr /~3e ~3cbr /~3e Changing skins layout is one thing~2c changing their styles is another.~3cbr /~3e ~3cbr /~3e Please we need a solution.~3cbr /~3e
  7. YodaKIRI
    YodaKIRI avatar
    33 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2006

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hmmm yesterday I could not edit my post~2c now I can~2c but today special characters are converted to hexa on this forum...~3cbr /~3e~3cbr /~3e ~3cbr /~3e Edit ~3a I upgraded to FF 3.1 beta 3 this morning~2c I think this is why there is this hexa thing.
  8. Graycrow
    Graycrow avatar
    12 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2007

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Skins, skins, skins...
    I decided to not upgrade to the new version. I can't use new skins because they completely changed a look of my application and also they looks too ugly and non-professional.

    We just need the old good skins. Compatibility  is very important issue and looks like Telerik doesn't understand that. Releasing a new version without taking care of back-compatibility - this is a HUGE mistake.

    The 2008 Q3 runs smoothly with my application and looks nice. Q1 2009 is total disaster.
    For example, I'm using 5-6 RadTabStrips almost on every page on my project (yes, I know that it complex, but I have no choise - this is complex project), and they should looks different (not just different colors!). So, I created 4 custom skins and use 3 Telerik skins, and it was perfect! After update it's disaster - custom skins is broken because you changed base skin and Tererik skins with same names now have completelly different colors, shapes, font and sizes and it looks UGLY and non-professional.

    Also I'm using 2 custom RadGrid skins - broken, Gray RadGrid skin - not exist anymore, Gray Rad Window skin - not exist, "Default" replacement is ugly. Such things like calendars and RadFileUpload I even didn't checked yet - I have enough info to decide that I'm not going to update to the new version. And after 2 years of subscription I asking myself - should I renew it? Probably no, because Telerik doesn't understand how important back-compatinility is.
  9. YodaKIRI
    YodaKIRI avatar
    33 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2006

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    And I see I got a problem with RadTabStrip~2c tab is selected in IE8 but not in FF3.1 . It worked with Q1 2009 beta so I think something changed on a client function~2c but I am already wasting my time with skins problems.~3cbr /~3e ~3cbr /~3e Really I jump back to Q1 2009 beta and I will wait for SP1.~3cbr /~3e
  10. Peter Zolja
    Peter Zolja avatar
    119 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2007

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Is the old demo site up somewhere? (I kind of need it) Thanks.
  11. Tervel
    Admin
    Tervel avatar
    1337 posts

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hello all,

    My name is Tervel Peykov, and I lead one of the teams which are responsible for the development of Telerik RadControls for ASP.NET AJAX. Hence I am one of the people directly involved in the decision making process about the skin revamp, and I would like to share more of the behind-the-scenes considerations of why we decided to push forward with this change. I have already written a related blog post, when the Q1 2009 BETA was released a couple of weeks ago - you can read it here.

    Firstly, I wish to comment on some of the posted information, as some of the things we did have not been noticed or have been incorrectly interpreted.

    The Appearance examples have indeed been removed. This is a part of our effort for this quarter to rework and improve the Telerik RadControls Quick Start framework. Literally hundreds of examples got thoroughly reworked or improved. Does this mean that we have removed the ability to examine a skin? No. In fact we have taken the experience to a qualitatively new level. Instead of having only one Skinning example per product, now you can change the skin for any example - thanks to the new SkinChooser dropdown that has been added in the title bar. Here is what the SkinChooser looks like:


    In addition to the huge number of reworked examples and the addition of the SkinChooser, there has been another important improvement in the Quick Start demos - the Search box. Now it uses "suggest-as-you-type" approach and is searching through the examples names, keywords and descriptions to return relevant suggestions to help you quickly located needed functionality.


    These improvements, as well as the skin changes are aimed at increased productivity for the developer, appeal for the end user, and greater consistency across the products. These are not PR words. Here is exactly how the new release (and the next one) delivers and eases both your work and improve the user experience::

    - Skin chooser (see above). This control, released recently allows your users to change the look and feel of the application in an instant (it is featured in both the QuickStart and the WebMail).
    - RadFormDecorator  - this control, unique to Telerik, which styles browser controls and elements has been further enhanced to provide smoother decoration and even more decoration features. Adding it to the page will take care more or less of everything that was not skinned - such as buttons, radiobuttons, checkboxes, textareas, textboxes and page background (for selected skins).
    - Skin improvements (the 'problem' being discussed here) - the changes made ensure consistent sizes and consistent look of common elements across controls. This is a must if end-users are to be given the option to change the skin of their application.
    - SkinBuilder application (under development, will be released next Q)

    The SkinBuilder application was already mentioned in my blog post. Here are two additional screenshots - the first one features a  RadFormDecorator demo, and the second features the Web Mail demo application's main page.





     Hopefully it is now becoming clearer how the RadSkinManager, RadFormDecorator, skin improvements and SkinBuilder  are coming together and form a greater vision. It is this vision that has brought about the changes to the skins. Changes in the CSS naming conventions were necessary for the unification of all products so that in the future their skins can be made more easily or with a visual tool (such as the StyleBuilder). Failing to do go through this process now - at the time when the skins themselves were changed - would spell more trouble in the future. Same argument applies to changing sizes of certain control's inner elements - one could argue whether an older skin looked better than its 'updated' counterpart, but one thing is clear - prior to this release it was practically impossible to "just" change the skin of the application. Different sizes in different skins would cause all kinds of visual problems - such as broken layout and lots of scrollbars. This won't be the case anymore - and the WebMail demo is the proof. Furthermore, failing to address the issue on cross-control UI consistency would prevent (or produce less than optimal) results when building complex UI interfaces.

    To summarize, the current enhancements and out-of-the-box improvements are meant to further streamline the development process and allow you, the developer, to produce great-looking skinnable applications with minimum efforts - and certainly with less effort compared to now.

    There was a similar discussion when Telerik RadControls for ASP.NET AJAX came out. While this new suite delivered huge benefits over the Classic suite - such as a single DLL, no external RadControls folder, more features, better performance - there was a good deal of frustrated people because of the breaking changes (of the new APIs following the MS AJAX conventions). Custom code stopped working, upgrade was less-than-trivial, and other problems emerged as well. What are the results now? It is not just that this new suite was better in any respect. We do not know of a single person who prefers the older control versions to the newer ones. For similar reasons - those that I listed above, we came to a hard, but in our opinion right decision - and it was to make the changes.

    I wish to assure you that we are doing our best to make the transition to you as smooth as possible and you should not feel left on your own. I stated this in the blog post, and I will repeat it here: Telerik will update your custom made skins for you. All you need to do is send us a working application with those older skins. Also, right now we are in the process of producing SkyBlue and old Default (Black) versions following the new conventions. Those will be uploaded on our website within a couple of days, so people who wish to use them would be able to use them as external skins. We are also updating the documentation and compiling a list of resources related to skinning the controls, which will shortly be made public as well.

    On a side note, another novelty in the new release that might have gone unnoticed at this moment in this the new RadCompression control. The RadControls for ASP.NET AJAX already features two out-of-the-box controls that optimize your page performance - the RadScriptManager (which can merge all script files into one and thus greatly reduce the number of client requests), and the RadStyleSheetManager (does the same for CSS files). Now this new control will do a similar type of optimization for your ViewState.

    Tervel Peykov, MCSD
    ASP.NET Team Leader
    Telerik

  12. Graycrow
    Graycrow avatar
    12 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2007

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Tervel, thank you for your post. Now I see situation more clearly and I agree that this is good idea.

    But! I still disagree with so brutal changes in visual styles. Ok, you changed css classes - not a problem, you changed font and tab sizes - not so big problem, but why you changed colors and shapes? It would be much better if you would  have kept old styles (of course converted for Q1 2009) and then create as many new styles as you want, but name them different - this is what people called back-compatibility. Can you imagine a situation when for example Microsoft informing a users who recently upgraded to, let's say, Windows 7 that their old programs designed for Windows 95 will not work anymore because they changed API, and to solve this problem Microsoft going to release a patch (and nobody knows when!) and then you need to open all dll's of your broken applications in hex editor and manually apply the patch? I can't. And maybe this is a reason why Microsoft still exist and Windows is most popular OS in the world.
  13. Graycrow
    Graycrow avatar
    12 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2007

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Another question. Is RadStyleSheetManager can manage an external styles also? Or only embedded?
  14. Peter Zolja
    Peter Zolja avatar
    119 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2007

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    @Tervel Peykov
    In almost all the projects that I've used Telerik controls, I had to customize the skin because the font was hardcoded. In these cases I had to take the skin and customize it by taking the font information out and let it use the global font settings instead. I can't have the site using Arial and the menu using Tahoma. Never quite understood why the font was hardcoded, other than for it to look exactly like on the demo site. 

    The second problem with the way skins worked, I haven't tried the new version, is just how complicated some of these skins are to modify. I understand you guys want to have a clean separation between HTML and CSS, but in order to achieve this, a lot of times you were using CSS hacks / tricks and so forth that you pretty much had to be a CSS wiz to understand. I learned quite a few things about CSS by messing with your style sheets, so that's a good thing. However, doing anything less than trivial, like change a font or color, took a LOT of time. I can't tell you how many hours of frustration I wasted trying to move something higher, make bigger, etc. and make them look the same in all the major browsers. I'm placing most of the blame on the browsers and their incompatibilities, but I feel you guys are not really helping by trying to be so pure. 

    You have to keep in mind that even if you make all the skins the same size in the new version, we will still have to modify them to fit the look of our site. Yes, some skins were larger / smaller than others. For us, it was rare that we had to change from one skin another. We picked one in the beginning, one that we felt took the least amount of work to customize, and we went with that. Let me emphasize this one more time: I had to tweak the size and look of the UI in all the non-trivial projects. So the fact that I will have to go in there and make adjustments should be a given.

    I know there's no easy solution for this, that there's a balancing act you have to perform, but let my feedback be this: Focus your attention on making any changes to the CSS styles easy! If you notice you're about to use a CSS trick / hack to make something work please stop, think, and ask yourself: Is it really necessary? Can it be done in a different way? How will the poor fellow who doesn't know all the magic tricks you know be able to understand this? 

    To use PR speak, the greatest value you can give me is to minimize the amount of time I have to work with your tools.

  15. Levi
    Levi avatar
    134 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2008

    Posted 13 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Dear Telerik,

    In all your innovations and changes to how the demos section works, you are failing to miss the main point:
    - Change existing skins to make them look totally different (and much worse in my opinion) is a very bad idea. People don't like redesigning their whole application every three months when you guys decide to go change all the skins again.
    - New skins are very poor: too dark, bad usability, inconsistent with the styles they are supposed to represent. i just don't get what you guys were thinking with half of them. Most are unusable.
    - A white vista combo box? Give me a break. Do you guys ever consider why they don't use white? It's too distracting. None of your skins take usability into account. The fonts are too hard to read. They are busy and distracting. There is poor contrast between font colors and background colors. They are a step backwards in so many ways from the previous skins.
    - Make NEW skins, don't change existing ones breaking them for pretty much ALL of your customers.

    Levi
  16. Robert Saddler
    Robert Saddler avatar
    19 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2007

    Posted 14 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hi,

    I second all these points.  We have implemented a custom skin for all Telerik controls using Web20 as the base skin and changing colours, image hues, font sizes and styles etc etc.  After upgrading on Friday all the visuals of our cusom skins are broken.

    I have always thought that rationalisation of the skinning engine was an asboloute must for Telerik as the inconcistency and duplications between controls has driven me up the wall in the past so I appreciate the efforts being made towards this vision.

    HOWEVER, implementing it in this way with no backward compatability and a blatant disregard for how it would effect the exsiting client base is ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS.  At least provide us with a webconfig override to UsePreviousSkinningEngine or something similar!  This is a no brainer!

    We have rolled back the upgrade and wont be applying it in the foreseeable future as we have no resource to reskin the controls at present.  On that note, are Telerik going to offer any of their inhouse resources to transform custom skins that are based on their own skins to the new versions?

    Regards,

    Rob.
  17. Stephen
    Stephen avatar
    70 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2008

    Posted 14 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I definitely agree with the amount of changes to the skins in Q1 2009 release.  I cannot upgrade to this new version and use these skins. My client is and will be very disappointed from the new selection of skins.  We must use the the Q3 2008 WebBlue skin for our site.  
  18. joy
    joy avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Nov 2004

    Posted 14 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    It wasted me one day to update to new skin,but something can not work as usual.
  19. Bill
    Bill avatar
    94 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2006

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    After reading this, there is NO WAY I will upgrade until something is resolved. I have many custom skins, and everything I read says it breaks this process. Is there a replacement process? Will I not be able to use my custom skinning? I spent a ton of hours getting these custom skins to work. I just cannot go through this again.
    I still think that it would be a good idea to have a "Appearance" menu item on the demo site for each control. Even if it simply has one control and you pick the skin from the change skin dropdown, everyone is use to looking for this menu item. It is one of the most useful items. Instead, I have to dig thru all the menu items to finally find an example that has the change skin option (not on every example).

     

  20. Tervel
    Admin
    Tervel avatar
    1337 posts

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hello Everyone,

    Allow me to provide you with extra details on the exact steps that are being taken with regards to skins. Most things were already mentioned in my original skinning blog post as well as my earlier answer in this forum, so I will try to keep this post as concise and to-the-point as possible.

    Q: I am using [old] Default, Gray, SkyBlue or Inox skin - which were not included in the Q1 release. What should I do?
    A: We are currently in the process of adding these skins for download from the website, and you will be able to use them as external skins. They should be available by the end of this week.

    Q: I have implemented a custom skin for one or more Telerik controls, and now with the Q1 release it stopped working because some controls had their CSS classes names' changed and/or because the control rendering was changed. Who wil fix things for me?
    A: Telerik will. As mentioned in the original blog post, published three weeks before the release - in case that you are not able to convert the custom skins, please send them over in a runnable project. Shortly, we will send you back an update version that looks the same, but can be used with the new Q1 2009 release.

    Q: I was using one of the existing 11 skins that you updated with Q1 2009, but I don't like the new look. I want to keep the previous look of the skin. What to do?
    A: Answer here is similar to the first question - Once that we are done with providing the Default, SkyBlue and Inox skins (which should be online within a couple of days from now), we will immediately proceed with providing updated versions of the "older" skins.  To speed up solving your issues, please help us prioritize the order of skins - let us know which skins you are using, so that we update those first.

    In addition to this, most Telerik controls in fact did not get their naming conventions changed (it seems that there is some misunderstanding about that). Commonly skinned controls such as RadMenu, RadTabStrip, RadTreeView - to name a few, can be easily tweaked to to look "like they used to" by fetching a skin from the /Skins folder of the previous release (Q3 2008 SP2) and apply them as external.

    All updated skins will be posted as they are ready at the following URL:
    http://www.telerik.com/support/skins.aspx
    Currently there is already stuff uploaded such as the updated RadGrid skins.

    More information on how to integrate a skin as external can be found here:
    http://www.telerik.com/help/aspnet-ajax/skinregistration.html

    To my best understanding, the information above addresses all concerns expressed in this thread. If I have missed some scenario, please let me know.

    A point, which I believe was not properly explained: concerns that Telerik has failed to weigh in the importance of maintaining backwards compatibility and smooth upgrades. I wish to assure you that we understand this from first-hand experience. Internally at Telerik there are a number of intranet sites - in addition to www.telerik.com and the SiteFinity CMS - all of which use RadControls extensively. The teams that develop and maintain these complex applications go through the same process each new release and we know first-hand what it feels to our customers.
    So it is this very reason why we pushed with such a significant change to have a number of goals accomplished at once, rather than span things in the process of half a year. Not only would the process be much more frustrating, but the goals which we had set would not be reached either - easy skinning of applications, consistent cross-control look and feel, streamlined naming conventions, use of PNGs (except in IE6) simplified skin maintenance, etc. Hence once again should be noted that the skin update had a number of goals and aspects - and was not about simply changing the look. One other important goal that was achieved with this rework was to reduce the overall CSS (and sometimes images) needed by a skin.


    What we failed to do for the release was to provide the "old" versions of the skins for download - something that is currently being done. The reasoning is trivial - doing so would have pushed the release further by additional two or three weeks. As there are thousands of customers who do not use custom skins, or have implemented them for controls which are backwards compatible as far as skinning is concerned it was decided to proceed with the release as planned.

    To summarize everything said so far: Everyone who uses custom skins (or wish to use an old skin version)will be able to upgrade to the new Q1 2009 and keep their applications look - by taking some time so that the "old" skins get updated and made available for download.


    Best regards,
    Tervel Peykov, MCSD
    ASP.NET Team Leader
    Telerik
  21. Stephen
    Stephen avatar
    70 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2008

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    You asked about priority on the old skins for Q1 2009?  For me, this would most certainly be WebBlue as a #1 priority to get upgraded for the new version.


    Thanks,
    Stephen
  22. SamVanity
    SamVanity avatar
    154 posts
    Member since:
    Apr 2006

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I was using the Sunset skin for RadWindow from the Q3 release, and now it is totally changed in this release (for worse). Please make this skin a priority to update as well.
  23. Levi
    Levi avatar
    134 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2008

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    If you guys are confident that these new skins are an improvement, why not take a survey? I do not see any improvements. Only bad design choices that may be more "consistent" per Telerik, but aesthetically are a large step backwards. Ask your customers, you might be surprised with the answers.

    - New office skin? (good/bad)?
    - New vista skin? (good/bad)?

    For example, MIcrosoft probably spends millions of dollars on design time and usability testing to create their Office and Vista interfaces. You have a good replica of this and then proceed to completely ruin them to create something that looks nothing like the original.  The colors are much too dark now. You can't read the fonts. You use highlight colors for non-highlighted items; it just doesn't make any sense. You guys would be better off undoing all these skin changes. The new office skin is just horrible. Come on guys, why these drastic changes to dark colors with cookie cutter styling that looks the same on every skin.

    I know it's hard when you've put a lot of work into something, but at some point you have to cut your losses and do what's best for your customers. Yes, there are a few skin improvements, but i would say 95% of them are bad changes to things that looked professional and clean.

    Consider this also... companies often spend several months on their UI's for a single application. They don't want to change them every three months when Telerik has decided it's time for something new. I cannot see a single person smoothly upgrading to something that will completely change the look of their applications. Nothing matches anymore... It's a nightmare. Just because your guys have the resources to rework (completely redesign?) internal applications every new release, smaller companies do not. it's great that you will upgrade custom skins, but who wants to  create a custom skin for every control from a previous release that they are using just to get bug fixes and new features. This is not convenient.

    Say what you want about your reasons: consistency, yada, yada. The new skins are much worse and none of our structural changes to CSS required you to ruin the look of existing skins instead of making new ones. At what point does the taste of your customers matter? These are the people who use your product day in and day out. These are people that have customers that demand a good user experience. They need fonts they can read, colors that aren't too distracting. Your previous skins with some small exceptions did this very well. Start asking yourself who are you designing your skins for, yourselves or your customers? Just because a designer might think something looks "cool" doesn't mean it has good usability or will be helpful to your customers.

  24. Alex
    Alex avatar
    8 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2007

    Posted 16 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Not too happy how the new skins have been rolled out with this release =(

    I have to agee with most of the posts on this thread.
  25. Dennis
    Dennis avatar
    9 posts
    Member since:
    Feb 2008

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I do also have to agee with most of the posts on this thread.

    This is BAD. It can not be defined in any other way.

    I am now the proud owner of seven systems that can't be upgraded since the skins have been discontinued. So instead of being able to use the new features, I have to decide which systems need the upgrade and the change of layout and which should not be upgraded.

    You might make the skins as external skins which we can include, but they probably wont be kept up to date, and then what shall we do!

    Dennis

  26. Rick
    Rick avatar
    49 posts
    Member since:
    Oct 2008

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Just to give my opinion on this issue.

    I installed the new version yesterday. I had 3 custom skins that I knew I would have to redesign. No big deal, I just changed my .skin file to use some of the supplied skins.

    My main problems are with the styles for the RadGrid, and the RadToolBar. The padding on the RadGrid is much bigger than it was and now I can fit much less on a page. The ToolBar needs some adjusting to padding also. Then I need to re-integrate my old colours by recreating the custom skins.

    I have some tickets open pointing out a few bugs I've found and some comments on the new skins. My main issue is that I don't want to recreate my skins only to have Telerik release an update which fixes many of my issues anyway. I guess I'll wait a couple of weeks for Telerik to resolve some of these bugs before creating my new skins.

    Personally I'm very happy that Telerik are actively developing their RadControls, and of course it won't always be a straightforward case of uninstalling the old version and installing the new one. Once my client goes live I don't think I'll be installing any further updates unless absolutely essential. But for a project that's under development I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

    I'm sure Telerik are working very hard to come to some resolution about the new skins, but as they've pointed out, in order to standardise the look and feel inevitably some compromises have to be made.
  27. EET Group
    EET Group avatar
    28 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2007

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    I have posted this elsewhere, but I feel it's a huge mistake in logic and ease of implementation:

    WHY have you hard coded font family's into your controls default skins!?

    This is not a debate whether one thing is ugly or not (even though I think that Seguie - or what it's called - IS indeed ugly and does neither scale or fit), but rather that this is a completely illogical thing to do. All your controls WILL be used inside existing websites, which has likely already a font scheme. Who on earth decided that it would be a good idea to ignore this, and just force some arbitrary Telerik-chosen-font into these pages??

    This means, that even IF somebody actually likes your new skins, they will HAVE to fiddle with the fonts on ALL your controls if they should be so unfortunate to be using another font on their website. My anecdotal evidence suggests that this would probably apply for well over 99% of the cases.

    Please, let your skins inherit font selection at least - if somebody wan't to use that horrible Seguie-font, let them choose do so so for their ENTIRE site.
  28. Ivo
    Admin
    Ivo avatar
    689 posts

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hi guys,

    This is to let you know that we have updated most of the Q3 skins and they can now be used with the latest assemblies. Check out the "sticky" threads in the respective control forum:

    Grid: http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/aspnet-ajax/grid/radgrid-q3-2008-skins-available-for-download.aspx
    Scheduler: http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/aspnet-ajax/scheduler/radscheduler-q3-2008-skins-available-for-download.aspx
    Menu: http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/aspnet-ajax/menu/radmenu-q3-2008-skins-available-for-download.aspx
    etc

    Not all forums for all controls have been updated yet as the skins are still being worked on. But this should get you guys started if you want to still use the Q3 skins.

    We are also finishing up a conversion tool for "old" skins to be used with the new assemblies and this will be available soon as well.

    Regards,
    Ivo
    the Telerik team


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  29. Dave Navarro
    Dave Navarro avatar
    150 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2005

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Hello,

    Thanks for the information but I have a question; after reading the instructions for using the Q3 skins I believe I would have to repeat the installation / setup of Q3 skins for each website I'm working on?

    If that is the case, and I have 2 dozen websites I'm responsible for... wouldn't a better solution be for telerik to place them back in their Q3 location, update the .dll / assemblies and release an updated hot fix / patch? That way the skins are located in 1 place as originally installed and my maintenance issues are greatly reduced.

    Am I off the mark??? Or is this a temporary fix and the conversion tool be the answer to all our problems?

     

    Let us know and thanks,

     

    Dave

  30. ksuh
    ksuh avatar
    44 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2006

    Posted 17 Mar 2009 Link to this post

    Sigh...  And once again Telerik arbitrarily changes the skins.

    I just have to shake my head every time this happens.

    Look, can you guys stick with the same css classes, just for once?  How many times do you wish for me to suffer the damned infernal machine?

    Do you really think I have time to go and change the four web apps I have that use your controls, just to update css class names?

    I use your controls because they were supposed to save me time.  I'm now seriously considering just rolling up my own controls.  I think it'll cause me less pain.
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