Kendo UI for Business Applications

10 posts, 0 answers
  1. Oscar
    Oscar avatar
    3 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2011

    Posted 05 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hello,
    first let me congratulate you (Telerik) for once again stay one year ahead of the others..

    is pretty amazing what you are working on here
    when I see this
    http://demos.kendoui.com/grid/remote-data.html
    I know you are targeting a system to allow the creations of truly Business Applications

    now my questions is:
    We all know the damage the MS has caused in the mind of companies wanting to upgrade to Silvelright, those companies have now a great uncertainty and have stooped all silverlight projects.
    But now comes Telerik  (loved and trusted by Companies as well as developers) with a system that could allow us to go to our customers and say, look we can create your ERP with this power.
    1-are we going to be able to use Ria Services in Kendo ?
    2-the power of Entity Frameworks, maybe ?
    3-what about use our beloved MVVM business Logic,, could we be able (is it on your road map) maybe to have a similar MVVM pattern like the one we currently use in Silverlight ... if this is true then we can have all the power of Ria Services, Entity Frameworks, LinQ, C# and use Kendo IU for the Front end UI. ?
    4- what can we expect ? 
    do you realize that due to Telerik solid reputation is easier to go to a company and say look we can do your application with Telerik ,  than go and say we will do it with the lattes MS technology... we all know why, is becasue of the uncertainty their created

    Regards
  2. Todd
    Admin
    Todd avatar
    66 posts

    Posted 05 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hi Oscar,Thank you for trying the Kendo UI beta! We're glad you like what you see in the early previews.

    Let me try to answer your questions directly:

    1. While Kendo UI is built by Telerik, it is for whole new type of development. It is correct that we plan to aggressively support real application development with JavaScript and HTML5, but we are not taking a "Microsoft-centric" approach. You should be able to use RIA Services with Kendo UI, perhaps via the Microsoft RIA/JS, but Kendo UI will focus more on broad web service support that is valuable for many server-side platforms (like PHP, Ruby, .NET, etc.)
    2. Entity Framework is a server-side data technology. Business applications will still need to maintain some type of server-side code for application logic and data processing. Kendo UI provides the framework for rich, HTML5 front-end development.
    3. We do plan to support a powerful JavaScript binding framework, perhaps similar to MVVM. We think this is core to making Kendo UI a complete package for real application development.
    4. There is much, much more to come from Kendo UI. Today's beta is just the beginning. Expect another beta in a couple months, followed by the first official release, and then many more updates in 2012. Watch the Road Map page for details about what's coming, or vote for features on the Kendo UI UserVoice.

    Kendo UI is a new way of thinking if you're familiar with the Microsoft approaches to development. Ultimately, though, it can help deliver faster applications ready for any PC or device. Enjoy the beta.

    -Todd
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  4. Jonathan
    Jonathan avatar
    37 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2012

    Posted 11 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    I understand this will not be a Microsoft-centric type of development. Though, if you could come up with a pattern to allow developers to somehow reuse existing c# ViewModels in your JavaScript binding framework, that would be extremely valuable.
  5. Todd
    Admin
    Todd avatar
    66 posts

    Posted 11 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hi Jonathan,

    Thanks the feedback and for checking-out the early Kendo UI betas.

    You are correct that our focus first is on building a solution that serves the needs of the broad HTML5/JavaScript developer. As Kendo UI matures, though, we will increasingly try to provide solutions to help simplify interactions with various server-side technologies, too.

    For now, I suggest that you log this idea in the Kendo UI UserVoice so that others can vote on it and help gauge its popularity. We'll definitely keep this in mind for future road map planning!

    -Todd

  6. John
    John avatar
    2 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2011

    Posted 12 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    One year ahead ? really ? This sounds a bit like a joke. There are numerous vendors out there who've had much better and feature rich client-only toolsets since a long time. IMO, it's kind of inadequate and not what I would have expected from a vendor such as Telerik which has been in the market for so many years. Where are the MVC controls? I mean, what is going to happen with your existing MVC wrappers? How are they different than whatever you're going to come up with next?

    Also looking closely at the code of your controls, this all looks like a hack. I mean, everything is developed altogether, without any notion of clean separation and scalability. There are really important features missing such as standard ways to style the widgets, for example - Themeroller support. Not sure why you didn't go the jQuery UI way and developed a custom solution instead.

    I would be glad if you can shed some light on those :)

    Thanks,
    John
  7. Todd
    Admin
    Todd avatar
    66 posts

    Posted 12 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    John-

    While we recognize Kendo UI is not the first JavaScript UI solution, even with the beta, there are few JavaScript UI frameworks that match the scope and quality of Kendo UI. And where gaps do exist, we'll quickly close them with our aggressive road map and release cycle.

    Other tools from Telerik are not negatively impacted by Kendo UI. In fact, in the case of MVC, there are benefits. As an example, the work done on Kendo UI charts directly benefited and enabled the new HTML5 charting available for MVC. If you're a Microsoft developer doing traditional server-side development, I'd encourage you to stick with one of those UI solutions from Telerik.

    Finally, we clearly disagree that Kendo UI is even slightly hackish.

    Kendo UI is being built from the ground-up without cutting any corners to deliver the best performing, most complete jQuery-based HTML5 UI framework. This is not another jQuery UI clone. If you want a jQuery UI clone, they're a dime a dozen and you're welcome to try them. We think we can do better, especially in areas of performance, release schedule, and complete, integrated framework.

    If you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to email me directly (anglin@telerik.com) and I can share more about how we're improving on the jQuery UI approach to JavaScript UI and how we plan move from Beta 1 to RTW.

    Hope that helps. If you have any actual feedback on the beta bits after giving them a try, we'd love to hear that so we can make the first version of Kendo UI as good as possible.

    -Todd
  8. John DeVight
    John DeVight avatar
    209 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2010

    Posted 16 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hey Jonathan,

    Regarding your request for coming up "with a pattern to allow developers to somehow reuse existing c# ViewModels in your JavaScript binding framework", take a look at: Kendo UI Extensions for ASP.NET MVC  It is still in the "proof of concept" stage, but a stable release is expected by the end of August.

    Regards,

    John DeVight
  9. Todd
    Admin
    Todd avatar
    66 posts

    Posted 17 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hello John,

    Thanks for your passionate early contribution to Kendo UI!

    Just to make it clear for everyone else, our road map includes plans to eventually introduce official server-side wrappers for Kendo UI for many popular server-side platforms, like PHP, Ruby, and .NET.

    John's project is a community effort unrelated to Kendo UI, but you're welcome to check it out and try it in the meantime. Obviously, we don't formally support these MVC extensions, but we're happy to see the community as excited about Kendo UI as we are!

    -Todd
  10. John
    John avatar
    2 posts
    Member since:
    Aug 2011

    Posted 19 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Todd,
    Thanks from the feedback. Building something from ground up -  Ok. But that doesn't have anything to do with performance or release schedules, really. In similar products the framework has Zero (or negigible) effect on performance, you don't really need to be dependent on any existing controls, and extend them, you can just use the framework as a base.  This still doesn't answer my question regarding styling / themes (that's where the biggest pain is, IMO, when not being dependent on a framework).

    As a customer, it gets quite confusing to end up with numerous products which all have a piece of what i need, but no product has it all, so to speak - that's what i'd want to see, don't get me wrong. 

    Thank you
  11. Todd
    Admin
    Todd avatar
    66 posts

    Posted 22 Aug 2011 Link to this post

    Hello John T (seems we have a lot of Johns on this thead!),

    Sorry that I missed your core question. With regards to styling and themes, Kendo UI will provide a very rich experience. As you would expect, Kendo UI will ship with pre-designed themes out of the box (beyond the 3 available in the beta), and then we will further provide an easy to use "ThemeBuilder" (similar to ThemeRoller) customization tool (which we aim to introduce in preview before the official release later this year). We're also considering offering some support for using (or converting) jQueryUI themes to Kendo UI themes since both UI frameworks use similar CSS primitives. That's still just a research spike for the moment, though.

    And ultimately, our goal with Kendo UI is exactly what you're after: a product that has it all, so that you don't have to use pieces from 20 other products to do JavaScript/HTML5 development.

    Hope that helps.

    -Todd

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