Documentation Please!

22 posts, 0 answers
  1. David Bows
    David Bows avatar
    50 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2005

    Posted 13 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    Please update your documentation so I do not have to rely on support so much!  They are great but they are sleeping while I am working here in the US.  Examples are not documentation, very very helpful yes, but not a replacement for comprehensive up-to-date documentation.

    Thanks,
    David
  2. Robert Swafford
    Robert Swafford avatar
    134 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2006

    Posted 14 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    I'll second that.  A comprehensive set of documentation akin to Microsoft's MSDN library for ASP.NET/C#/VB.NET would be a godsend for all telerik developers I think.  I'm sure it would cut down on a lot of the "how do i do  <insert trivial task here>" type questions you guys get.

    Thanks for the great product!
  3. Christopher Blickley
    Christopher Blickley avatar
    202 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2004

    Posted 14 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    Especially on the clientside API.  I find that sometimes I can view the .js files and find even more functionality than in the documentation, such as additional client-side properties that have not been obfuscated.  Having a true client-side API documentation would be great instead of just the current few pages in the help.

    -Chris
  4. Sean Clifford
    Sean Clifford avatar
    22 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2005

    Posted 17 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    I'd really like to see full-fledged PDF documentation akin to DNN's documentation, so I can print and bind conveniently.
  5. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 20 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    Check our HELP page at www.telerik.com/HELP/, Sean, you will find the needed PDF files there.


    All the best,
    Robert
    the telerik team
  6. David Bows
    David Bows avatar
    50 posts
    Member since:
    Dec 2005

    Posted 20 Feb 2006 Link to this post

    The PDF documents are very helpful!  I know they are basically the same thing as the online help but they are much easier to read.  A lot of times I want to get ideas of things to do and reading a document can do that, clicking around in help makes that process very difficult.

    Thank you,
    David
  7. Guy Thomas
    Guy Thomas avatar
    6 posts
    Member since:
    Sep 2004

    Posted 19 Mar 2006 Link to this post

    I also would like to see the documentation improved, particularly for the client side. The telerik controls are great and I use them in every project I do but it can be difficult to find the right javascript syntax and capabilities of the controls on the client.
  8. Vassil Petev
    Admin
    Vassil Petev avatar
    1765 posts

    Posted 20 Mar 2006 Link to this post

    Hello guys,

    The documentation for r.a.d.grid, r.a.d.editor and r.a.d.tabstrip is coming out pretty nicely. These HELP files we have improved the most (actually, we have reworked them completely).

    The client-side API also had quite many improvements, although not as many as in the server-side code, which is where we lacked the most. Please, review the help docs tomorrow and let us know what you think.

    We will continue to improve the files until Q2 2006, when the other controls will see the major changeover. Hopefully, we will be able to get all done by then (it is a bit of work - the HELP of r.a.d.grid grew by another 50% just for the last month to 350+ pages).

    Expecting your feedback tomorrow,
    Robert
    the telerik team
  9. Stuart Hemming
    Stuart Hemming avatar
    1622 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2004

    Posted 10 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    For my money there are still big gaps in the Grid and Callback help files.

    --
    Stuart
  10. Ivo
    Admin
    Ivo avatar
    689 posts

    Posted 12 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    Hello Stuart,

    Please let us know of any specific suggestions that you have for our r.a.d.grid and r.a.d.callback documentation. We will be glad to make any additions that you recommend.

    Your input on filling up any gaps is highly appreciated.

    We are doing our best to constantly improve product manuals and community involvement is very welcome. Thank you.

    Kind regards,
    Ivo
    the telerik team
  11. Stuart Hemming
    Stuart Hemming avatar
    1622 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2004

    Posted 12 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    The problem is that many of the entries don't have any context; there's no way to determine the consequences of changing/setting a property for example.

    As an example (choosed by some random clicking in the API help tree), what does tne IsSet method of GridClientSetting do? And in what context would it be of value to me to know this? What about the SetVisibleChildren or InitializeEditorInCell methods of GridDataItem.

    As a minimum the each entry should contain a short description of that the entry represetns, even if it is to say "Don't play with this". Those entries that we can play with should, except in the most trivial places include a short sample of code demostrating the context in which the item might be used in code.

    --
    Stuart
  12. Nikolay Dobrev
    Admin
    Nikolay Dobrev avatar
    201 posts

    Posted 12 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    Hi Stuart,

    Indeed you are right and I admit this regretfully. The main focus when we were working on the Q1 documentation was the significant improvement of the, let's call it "manuals section" of the documentation. Unfortunately our resources didn't allow us to fill the gaps in the server-side API reference and it was set aside. Here I want to stress that it was "FOR THE TIME BEING". The improvement of the API reference (especially for the grid control) is very necessary and urgent and we clearly realize that. Until then the only solution I would suggest is to ask your questions case-by-case - this way we will update the documentation with each question. In the near future we will try at least to mark the "Don't play with this" properties :)

    The IsSet method checks if some property has a value different from its default. It is not supposed to be used in development.

    Same applies for SetVisibleChildren or InitializeEditorInCell methods of GridDataItem - they are for internal grid usage or for some very specific scenarios.

    Please give us details on how you intend to use these properties/methods or what your application scenario is and we will suggest you how to achieve your goal.


    Kind regards,
    Nikolay Dobrev
    the telerik team
  13. Vern Henderson
    Vern Henderson avatar
    19 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 25 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    While it would be nice to have very thorough documentation, I think there's a more fundamental problem here. I'm trying to right code and I feel like, in many cases, I'm flying completely blind. In many cases, the only way I can find out what classes, method, and properties are available to me is by searching examples and probing. Naturally, this slows me WAY down. So, while I would be nice to have comprehensive documents, I'd settle for a simple, comprehensive list of ALL the classes, method, and properties broken out by client- and server-side. Perhaps with a blurb of text next to each entry. That would go along way toward reducing the overall support footprint of the product and be a step in the right direction. Just my 2 cents.
  14. Robert Swafford
    Robert Swafford avatar
    134 posts
    Member since:
    Jan 2006

    Posted 25 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    Vern, I think you've hit the nail on the head.  In my experience, I spend a lot of time looking up various classes, methods, properties, etc, and I think the way MSDN has everything organized is a fairly logical, easy to use format.  If Telerik could model their help section more like the MSDN format, I think many of us Microsoft-centric developers would feel more at home in the documentation.
  15. Nikolay Dobrev
    Admin
    Nikolay Dobrev avatar
    201 posts

    Posted 26 Apr 2006 Link to this post


    Hi guys,

    We're sailing the same boat. Your direction is our direction as well. The entire period since the SP1 release was mostly spent in some API reference improvement along with the other help improvements - new topics, fixes, etc. 
    Actually, things have not gone quite as we planned and there is still work to be done, but we'll do it.
    As for this interim release, we've put some efforts into documenting the major r.a.d.grid classes: RadGrid, GridTableView, GridColumn. The improvements are not limited to them, but these were the significant ones. 
    The course is taken and we'll make it to the end, just give us some time!  :)
    Meanwhile, please report any properties/methods/whatever you need and you have found undocumented or badly documented - they will be included or improved immediately.


    Kind regards,
    Nikolay Dobrev
    the telerik team
  16. Vern Henderson
    Vern Henderson avatar
    19 posts
    Member since:
    Mar 2006

    Posted 26 Apr 2006 Link to this post

    This approach will solve the long-term problem. However, there are those of us in the interim that would benefit greatly from a quickly assembled cheat sheet of the available classes, methods, and properties. When I'm trying to solve a problem, I want to see the spectrum of options that are available to me and choose from that list. I don't really want to post a message for each and every instance where I'm trying to figure out how to get the API to do what I want. Is there any chance that someone will at least post some informal documentation that could help everyone in the interim?
  17. Nikolay Dobrev
    Admin
    Nikolay Dobrev avatar
    201 posts

    Posted 27 Apr 2006 Link to this post


    Hi Vern,

    As for the interim release all public classes that were not supposed to be used by developers were excluded from the API. The same applies for properties/methods in the classes mentioned in my previous post - all those that are for internal r.a.d.grid usage were excluded from the API reference. However, I must say, that you may still be able to see them in VS.NET as they still remain public and the Refactor tool sees them.
    As I have said before, the process of cleaning unnecessary classes/properties/methods and documenting the others will continue and hopefully we'll be ready for the Q2 release.

    Regards,
    Nikolay Dobrev
    the telerik team
  18. doug thompson
    doug thompson avatar
    2 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2006

    Posted 29 Jan 2007 Link to this post

    Where have the PDFs gone. All I can see is CHM files there are no manuals that you can print off!
    If you go to where they used to be :
    www.telerik.com/support/documentation/printed-manuals.aspx
    You will see a lame phrase
    "To download the manuals in PDF format, please follow the product links on the left." of course you wont.
    I found this via GOOGLE not from Telerik.
    Does not help when you are trying to justify using this product in production versa just grabing ideas from it and using ajax.net  or componentOne :(

  19. Nikolay Dobrev
    Admin
    Nikolay Dobrev avatar
    201 posts

    Posted 30 Jan 2007 Link to this post

    Hi Doug,

    We have decided to temporary freeze the PDF files until we find a better way for their generation. The good news is that it seems we are on the right track and most probably in March the PDFs will return refreshed and improved. In the meantime you can still download the old versions using the URL similar to this:

    www.telerik.com/support/documentation/r.a.d.editor.aspx where you can change "r.a.d.editor" with the product you are interested in.

    Sincerely yours,
    Nikolay Dobrev
    the telerik team
  20. Craig Bolon
    Craig Bolon avatar
    107 posts
    Member since:
    Jun 2006

    Posted 05 May 2007 Link to this post

    May 5, 2007

    This long-running thread recognizes problems we continue to find when trying to use Telerik's documentation. We know how difficult it can be to divert resources from development to documentation, so we can sympathize with Telerik's situation. Still . . . .

    We find some PDF "printed manuals" on Telerik's site but are not sure whether they are current. These have been by far the most useful form of documentation. There does not appear to be any current part of the site that provides links to these PDF documents. In January, 2007, a Telerik post to this thread estimated that new PDF documents would become available in March. What has happened?

    -- Craig Bolon
       Brookline, MA, US
  21. surfer
    surfer avatar
    585 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2003

    Posted 05 May 2007 Link to this post

    Yep, the PDF tutorial has been released with the Q1 2007 release. It is referred to as "Self Paced Tutorial" and is available as a PDF download here:

    http://www.telerik.com/support/self-paced-tutorial.aspx

    I've seen threads in the forum on the tutorial content here:
    http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/thread/b311D-mbcec.aspx

    and here
    http://www.telerik.com/community/forums/thread/b311D-mbdmm.aspx

    It's good thing that it is a two-way process and the feedback for the docs is taken into account.
  22. doug thompson
    doug thompson avatar
    2 posts
    Member since:
    Jul 2006

    Posted 07 May 2007 Link to this post

    hi Surfer/Craig el al.

    Thanks for this tutorial it is very welcome.
    I have not printed it off yet but will as soon as I get to work.

    I have noticed that some of the pictures so far a blurred so you cannot see what the menu says but is just a general idea. This would explain why my documentation files are huge.
    It might be just me who would like a version that is not so aggressively rescaled and don’t mind a longer download time. When it is printed it might look fine. With the PDF you could do with building the thumb nails for ‘pages’ view. I know this makes the file bigger but for those of us that done have acrobat /distiller installed it would help.


    This is quite separate from the BIG thank you for doing these docs.

    As Craig pointed out, you will need to attach a version to this and I hope there is another ‘all change’ moment at telerik.

    I also understand that telerik do a web controls ‘lite’ version but have not see this mentioned, lite meaning less bloated as the standard version, just in English (or your local language I guess) just one style.
    It is like the contrast between the ComponentOne Web.UI controls and telerix, is that telerik are all singing and all dancing and the CO web.ui tend to be lean(sparse) and mean.

    For us in .NET1.1 development we just included a virtual directory to a common set of shared user controls that we used for the rest of our 60+ sites. In .NET2 we cant do that is it seems that we have to duplicate the same set of common user controls all over the place (less good site is version control etc).


    Do you have any suggestions for .NET2.0 users on how to have one install of the telerik controls that maybe used in many websites on the same iis6 server without duplication?

    Thanks again for the docs.

    Doug


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